Not sure what the lie is. They’re better, but not great. Pretty simple really. But if you don’t matter then why are you getting involved in any political discussion?
The lie is that Democrats are the better choice. They have you locked up and kept lockup in a duopoly that represents the 1% while shitting on the working class. But Democrats are thankful that they at least get some blue shit.
There are politics outside of that duopoly which is why that their opinion and everyone else’s opinion politically matters
So concentration camps, new wars to distract from pedophiles, turning Gaza into a trump resort after removing everyone there, destroying alliances with other countries, getting rid of all trans rights, etc. that’s all irrelevant to you? It’s the same with all that?!?
I get that the duopoly sucks and the Democrats are also owned by the billionaires. But the destruction caused by trump will be felt for generations now already. A ground swell at the primaries for progressives can change the Democrats like it has in the past; just refusing to support them only gives power to the gop which is way way worse.
Concentration camps eh? You remember when the news was going apeshit about how Trump was putting Mexican kids in cages? You ever wonder who built those facilities? Obama built them, while he was dropping a then record number of drones and bombs on the middle east, our worst Repub- wait a minute…
Gaza, right, the one thing democrats are is anti-israel, that’s why they keep voting to give them money and bombs, oh shit wait that’s bad…
Trans, that’s why the Dems said that the trans were a thorn in their side that helped Kamala lose, oh whoops that’s not good either…
Fuck maybe they really aren’t “the good guys.” Better? Maybe, or maybe better at hiding it.
Right, so if you delusional really think Dems are just as bad as Trump then fine - vote for him, or vote third party or don’t vote (it’s all the same).
I’m a majority of them don’t care about the marginalized, they talk a big game about protecting the marginalized while supporting a party that keeps them marginalized. The material conditions for the marginalized have been unchanged for decades. Now that the white liberals are starting to fill a pinch and notice that their material conditions are changing is why support for Democrats is at an all-time low
I don’t forget that the party was against gay marriage until very late into the 1990s when it was getting more driving force from the younger voters they wanted to cater to. I remember Al Gore listening to his wife to try and censor music because she found it offensive in the 1980s. They pivoted toward supporting the civil rights act only after outcry over it reached a fever pitch. You have to drag them kicking and screaming to care about people not them or accept change at all. I’m done with being their whipping boy and being forced to tow the line by trying to make me out to be the villain.
I don’t forget that the party was against gay marriage until very late into the 1990s when it was getting more driving force from the younger voters they wanted to cater to.
I don’t forget that the legislators we elected kicked it to the courts to do their jobs for them and then refused to codify Obergefell.
Same with Roe vs. Wade. Instead of making it a law that’s harder to remove, they just let the SCOTUS say something that we see now can be easily rescinded. But apparently it’s too “hard” to pass laws once you have a trifecta. They can only seem to work on one decent then a year then eff off the rest.
When they recognize a marginalized group their material conditions never change. Democrats claim to support the trans community and being able to use the bathroom of choice, but don’t care you are living in the streets whole making those decisions. They claim to support the black community whole building up oppressive police forces and helping build cop cities across the country, with cops being trained by the IDF, the same IDF currently slaughtering Palestinians. They supported MLK and civil rights that hated MLK after the bill was signed.
This is who’s they’ve always been.
The white man will try to satisfy us with symbolic victories rather than economic equity and real justice.
Nope. Once we’re into elections, the only way to win is to stop criticizing the candidates we want to win. Whether it’s Israeli support (which gop is way worse on), or the candidates laugh, or anything else. During primaries, fight like hell for progressives and non-Israeli-boot-lickers, but then stfu and help the better candidates win in the election.
There’s not a damn bit of difference between BlueMAGA like yourself and MAGA. The party you are supporting has directly led us to where we are right now. Fascism does not form in a vacuum, it requires the help of a complicit liberal party.
If the Dems were in power now the entire world would be in a much better place. I’m not sure how you can possibly not see that. But they simply don’t have the seats in either house to stop the fascists (especially considering the non-dem dems). They don’t have power mostly because too many idiotic Americans fell for Trump’s crap, but also because too many leftists failed to vote against him and the magas. Of course Dems are still beholden to the billionaires, and it would be great to primary out a bunch and get younger progressives in there. But they are so much better than trump/maga and if you don’t see that, you are being willfully ignorant.
But it also could have triggered a massive backlash against them
Neat how you can blame the candidates in a hypothetical that involves going against netanyahu, but blame the voters in the reality where sticking with netanyahu was what happened. Then it was the fault of those evil voters who dared to criticize your perfect genocide candidate.
To elaborate, you conflate not liking the Dems with liking MAGA when it’s not the case. You can’t conceive people disliking your slightly less conservatism with anything else other than MAGA. You’re incapable of thinking of a left side far beyond the Democrats you’re so far in yourself.
We may not like it, but we’re stuck with a two party system in the U.S. so when you fail to vote for one party, you are supporting the other. If you truely believe that the Dems are just as bad as maga or just don’t care about pedophile support, wars to distract, ruining international alliances, destroying environmental controls, trans rights, loss of international soft power, destroying international trade, etc., then you are saying that yes you support maga intentionally by not voting usefully against them. You can like more progressive ideals and fight like hell in the primaries, but if you don’t vote usefully against maga in the elections, then you are part of the problem.
I’m not gloating about anything. I think the US should stop supporting Israel. And I think maga / trump is way worse for the people of Gaza than the dems.
It’s not defeatism. Push to win in the primaries, that’s how we shift the power. But it only works if they then actually get elected. When you give up and throw away your vote, that’s the defeatism.
There’s no such thing as throwing away your vote, if the person the party puts forwards doesn’t represent you then you select someone who does. It’s not my job to vote democrats into power no matter what, it’s their job to put forward a candidate that supports me to EARN my vote. And with what they did to Bernie in 2016, they won’t let someone with a sniff of progressive political discourse run as the nominee.
You can vote how you want. But in the two party system we effectively have in the US, not voting dem only makes sense if you really have no preferences between maga and dem. (Ie your ok with pedophiles running the country, destroying alliances, etc etc) And so if maga wins, unless you voted dem, you have not done what you could to stop them. So you are responsible for them winning and getting into power and all their policies. It sucks, but it’s how it is. The key is understanding how although not perfect (possibly even bad), the dems are better than maga. Chose whatever you want - maga or dem.
Not sure what the lie is. They’re better, but not great. Pretty simple really. But if you don’t matter then why are you getting involved in any political discussion?
The lie is that Democrats are the better choice. They have you locked up and kept lockup in a duopoly that represents the 1% while shitting on the working class. But Democrats are thankful that they at least get some blue shit.
There are politics outside of that duopoly which is why that their opinion and everyone else’s opinion politically matters
So concentration camps, new wars to distract from pedophiles, turning Gaza into a trump resort after removing everyone there, destroying alliances with other countries, getting rid of all trans rights, etc. that’s all irrelevant to you? It’s the same with all that?!?
I get that the duopoly sucks and the Democrats are also owned by the billionaires. But the destruction caused by trump will be felt for generations now already. A ground swell at the primaries for progressives can change the Democrats like it has in the past; just refusing to support them only gives power to the gop which is way way worse.
Concentration camps eh? You remember when the news was going apeshit about how Trump was putting Mexican kids in cages? You ever wonder who built those facilities? Obama built them, while he was dropping a then record number of drones and bombs on the middle east, our worst Repub- wait a minute…
Gaza, right, the one thing democrats are is anti-israel, that’s why they keep voting to give them money and bombs, oh shit wait that’s bad…
Trans, that’s why the Dems said that the trans were a thorn in their side that helped Kamala lose, oh whoops that’s not good either…
Fuck maybe they really aren’t “the good guys.” Better? Maybe, or maybe better at hiding it.
Right, so if you delusional really think Dems are just as bad as Trump then fine - vote for him, or vote third party or don’t vote (it’s all the same).
Ahh so marginalize people even more who are already marginalized by not letting them discuss issues? That’s your answer there?
I’m a majority of them don’t care about the marginalized, they talk a big game about protecting the marginalized while supporting a party that keeps them marginalized. The material conditions for the marginalized have been unchanged for decades. Now that the white liberals are starting to fill a pinch and notice that their material conditions are changing is why support for Democrats is at an all-time low
I don’t forget that the party was against gay marriage until very late into the 1990s when it was getting more driving force from the younger voters they wanted to cater to. I remember Al Gore listening to his wife to try and censor music because she found it offensive in the 1980s. They pivoted toward supporting the civil rights act only after outcry over it reached a fever pitch. You have to drag them kicking and screaming to care about people not them or accept change at all. I’m done with being their whipping boy and being forced to tow the line by trying to make me out to be the villain.
I don’t forget that the legislators we elected kicked it to the courts to do their jobs for them and then refused to codify Obergefell.
Same with Roe vs. Wade. Instead of making it a law that’s harder to remove, they just let the SCOTUS say something that we see now can be easily rescinded. But apparently it’s too “hard” to pass laws once you have a trifecta. They can only seem to work on one decent then a year then eff off the rest.
When they recognize a marginalized group their material conditions never change. Democrats claim to support the trans community and being able to use the bathroom of choice, but don’t care you are living in the streets whole making those decisions. They claim to support the black community whole building up oppressive police forces and helping build cop cities across the country, with cops being trained by the IDF, the same IDF currently slaughtering Palestinians. They supported MLK and civil rights that hated MLK after the bill was signed.
This is who’s they’ve always been.
~ Malcolm X
I used to think you could argue on good terms with Dems, that has become painfully apparent to be wrong over 10 years ago now.
Having been raised socialist that’s been my entire experience.
Wish I could say the same, it’s been a long winding road.
Welll if they’re just going to try to convince people to indirectly support maga, then no, I don’t want to hear that ignorance.
And by an astounding coincidence, anything you don’t want people to be allowed to say because it’s critical of the genocide wing is “helping maga”.
Nope. Once we’re into elections, the only way to win is to stop criticizing the candidates we want to win. Whether it’s Israeli support (which gop is way worse on), or the candidates laugh, or anything else. During primaries, fight like hell for progressives and non-Israeli-boot-lickers, but then stfu and help the better candidates win in the election.
Sure. And before elections there’s another excuse. There’s always some excuse to not criticize the genocide wing.
Turtles all the way down.
There’s not a damn bit of difference between BlueMAGA like yourself and MAGA. The party you are supporting has directly led us to where we are right now. Fascism does not form in a vacuum, it requires the help of a complicit liberal party.
If the Dems were in power now the entire world would be in a much better place. I’m not sure how you can possibly not see that. But they simply don’t have the seats in either house to stop the fascists (especially considering the non-dem dems). They don’t have power mostly because too many idiotic Americans fell for Trump’s crap, but also because too many leftists failed to vote against him and the magas. Of course Dems are still beholden to the billionaires, and it would be great to primary out a bunch and get younger progressives in there. But they are so much better than trump/maga and if you don’t see that, you are being willfully ignorant.
If the dems would listen to their voters instead of netanyahu and only netanyahu, they might have won.
Possibly. But it also could have triggered a massive backlash against them (via the Israeli bought media and the easily manipulated US electorate).
Neat how you can blame the candidates in a hypothetical that involves going against netanyahu, but blame the voters in the reality where sticking with netanyahu was what happened. Then it was the fault of those evil voters who dared to criticize your perfect genocide candidate.
To elaborate, you conflate not liking the Dems with liking MAGA when it’s not the case. You can’t conceive people disliking your slightly less conservatism with anything else other than MAGA. You’re incapable of thinking of a left side far beyond the Democrats you’re so far in yourself.
We may not like it, but we’re stuck with a two party system in the U.S. so when you fail to vote for one party, you are supporting the other. If you truely believe that the Dems are just as bad as maga or just don’t care about pedophile support, wars to distract, ruining international alliances, destroying environmental controls, trans rights, loss of international soft power, destroying international trade, etc., then you are saying that yes you support maga intentionally by not voting usefully against them. You can like more progressive ideals and fight like hell in the primaries, but if you don’t vote usefully against maga in the elections, then you are part of the problem.
you can stop gloating that the genocide wing runs dishonest primaries.
I’m not gloating about anything. I think the US should stop supporting Israel. And I think maga / trump is way worse for the people of Gaza than the dems.
Sure.
Uh huh.
More false dichotomy bullshit and defeatism. Love it.
It’s not defeatism. Push to win in the primaries, that’s how we shift the power. But it only works if they then actually get elected. When you give up and throw away your vote, that’s the defeatism.
More gloating that AIPAC buys you candidates you like.
?
There’s no such thing as throwing away your vote, if the person the party puts forwards doesn’t represent you then you select someone who does. It’s not my job to vote democrats into power no matter what, it’s their job to put forward a candidate that supports me to EARN my vote. And with what they did to Bernie in 2016, they won’t let someone with a sniff of progressive political discourse run as the nominee.
You can vote how you want. But in the two party system we effectively have in the US, not voting dem only makes sense if you really have no preferences between maga and dem. (Ie your ok with pedophiles running the country, destroying alliances, etc etc) And so if maga wins, unless you voted dem, you have not done what you could to stop them. So you are responsible for them winning and getting into power and all their policies. It sucks, but it’s how it is. The key is understanding how although not perfect (possibly even bad), the dems are better than maga. Chose whatever you want - maga or dem.
Yeah the parties can never change that’s why this next election I’m voting straight Federalist…
THERE IT IS!
You like it when people support trump/maga from a position of ignorance?
Nope, the false dichotomy bullshit.