Option 2: Tesla filed a backlog of rebates when they realized they had to
Both are possible, but everyone is jumping to conclusion that it’s option 1, while option 2 is the easier answer.
Also the government said they’re going to let all the other rebates that this pushed out at the last minute get the rebate regardless of if these were legit or not.
Option 2 should be easy to prove, so why didn’t they do that already, like literally the same day they were accused of it? Then their funds wouldn’t have been frozen.
I imagine they probably don’t want to release the information that would prove it if they could, and if they did it’d be redacted enough that no one would believe it anyway. It also costs money to fight endless things like this.
Ultimately, if the government comes back and says its legit, then people will believe it. If it’s fraud, there should be punishment.
That whole 1.5 billion accounting fraud story last week, I don’t think Tesla said anything official about it or done anything at least to specifically disprove it, but the FT has now retracted the story saying they made a mistake.
So I’m cruising through the rules surrounding Canada’s iZEV program and contrary to all of the media coverage I can’t find any requirement that the vehicle be “delivered”… It’s even described on the official Transport Canada website as a “Point of Sale” program. Delivery at the time of sale doesn’t seem to be a requirement.
Further if you look at the process, which also references this as a “Point of Sale or Lease” program, and the e-forms the end purchaser IS involved with this and consents to Transport Canada contacting them about their purchase.
The number of vehicles does seem high but only in the context of individuals however the iZEV program allows for Fleet Sales and some entities could claim up to 50 vehicles. Now all of a sudden what would need to be 8,000 individual sales could theoretically be as low as 160.
After reviewing the process and the forms it seems believable that Tesla slammed a bunch of legitimate sales into the system at the last minute. It’s a LOT less believable that Tesla made up all of these sales as the documentation requirements mean they’d certainly be caught the minute anyone checked.
It still means they should have sold something crazy like several dozens of full fleets per hour on the short span of a few days. Or imply that just 4 companies bought 2000 vehicles each, in just two days, during a weekend!. Nobody has ever done or does that. They filed the same weekend that the rebates entered pause. It is fraud.
I appreciate your skepticism, but the sales numbers reported by some of the dealerships in question are nothing short of miraculous. I know, because car dealers are my company’s clients.
So even if they had a backlog of rebates, the sales numbers would still be normal, and they’re not.
The Tesla show rooms / delivery centers aren’t dealerships in the traditional sense. It’s all Tesla. Tesla could have just dumped paperwork on a less busy area and said file all this shit.
Edit: and I agree, it’s fishy and should be investigated, but all the calls that it IS fraud are really premature.
but the sales numbers reported by some of the dealerships in question are nothing short of miraculous.
Eh, maybe. I appreciate your skepticism but as a former Sales Guy the ending of the iZEV program would have made sales, including fleet sales, pretty damn easy.
Let say you’ve had a company considering buying 50 EVs for their fleet and suddenly its in the news that the rebate program is ending. You now have 250,000 reasons to call the Dealership and get those vehicles under contract (Sale or Lease).
It works the other way around too. The Sales Schmuck from the dealership goes through his book of recent visitors to the dealership and calls them up. “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that the iZEV program is going to close down. So if you want to save $5,000 you should get down to the dealership right away.” so the person who was interested runs down there and inks a deal.
Those scenarios aren’t just plausible I’ve personally done them. The ending of a rebate program worth thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars is a powerful closing tool.
Also the sales numbers only appear “miraculous” if you assume that the transactions all happened in those two days when they almost certainly didn’t. A couple hundred individuals buy cars in January meanwhile the phone is ringing off the hook with fleet sales and suddenly the paperwork is behind.
This looks and smells strongly of fraud.
Transport Canada has the paperwork, you can’t file a rebate claim without it, so its just a matter of time until the truth comes out. If Tesla tried to defraud the Canadian Government then I hope they get crucified for it.
Option 1: Tesla fraudulently filed rebates
Option 2: Tesla filed a backlog of rebates when they realized they had to
Both are possible, but everyone is jumping to conclusion that it’s option 1, while option 2 is the easier answer.
Also the government said they’re going to let all the other rebates that this pushed out at the last minute get the rebate regardless of if these were legit or not.
Option 2 should be easy to prove, so why didn’t they do that already, like literally the same day they were accused of it? Then their funds wouldn’t have been frozen.
Especially considering this was months ago
I imagine they probably don’t want to release the information that would prove it if they could, and if they did it’d be redacted enough that no one would believe it anyway. It also costs money to fight endless things like this.
Ultimately, if the government comes back and says its legit, then people will believe it. If it’s fraud, there should be punishment.
That whole 1.5 billion accounting fraud story last week, I don’t think Tesla said anything official about it or done anything at least to specifically disprove it, but the FT has now retracted the story saying they made a mistake.
They probably had their families threatened. That’s what fascist regimes do.
The story explains what their mistake was that others pointed out to them.
Maybe they shouldn’t have kept a backlog then? That certainly sounds like a ‘them’ problem though, doesn’t it?
Doesn’t strike me as very efficient either
I don’t think I’d ever call behemoth corporations efficient.
woosh
Corpos are generally inefficient.
So I’m cruising through the rules surrounding Canada’s iZEV program and contrary to all of the media coverage I can’t find any requirement that the vehicle be “delivered”… It’s even described on the official Transport Canada website as a “Point of Sale” program. Delivery at the time of sale doesn’t seem to be a requirement.
Further if you look at the process, which also references this as a “Point of Sale or Lease” program, and the e-forms the end purchaser IS involved with this and consents to Transport Canada contacting them about their purchase.
The number of vehicles does seem high but only in the context of individuals however the iZEV program allows for Fleet Sales and some entities could claim up to 50 vehicles. Now all of a sudden what would need to be 8,000 individual sales could theoretically be as low as 160.
After reviewing the process and the forms it seems believable that Tesla slammed a bunch of legitimate sales into the system at the last minute. It’s a LOT less believable that Tesla made up all of these sales as the documentation requirements mean they’d certainly be caught the minute anyone checked.
It still means they should have sold something crazy like several dozens of full fleets per hour on the short span of a few days. Or imply that just 4 companies bought 2000 vehicles each, in just two days, during a weekend!. Nobody has ever done or does that. They filed the same weekend that the rebates entered pause. It is fraud.
Or as I said in my OP, a backlog they were forced to deal with when they were advised it was about to run out.
Saying it’s fraud doesn’t make it fraud. The investigation will tell us if it was fraud.
I appreciate your skepticism, but the sales numbers reported by some of the dealerships in question are nothing short of miraculous. I know, because car dealers are my company’s clients.
So even if they had a backlog of rebates, the sales numbers would still be normal, and they’re not.
This looks and smells strongly of fraud.
The Tesla show rooms / delivery centers aren’t dealerships in the traditional sense. It’s all Tesla. Tesla could have just dumped paperwork on a less busy area and said file all this shit.
Edit: and I agree, it’s fishy and should be investigated, but all the calls that it IS fraud are really premature.
I wondered about that myself but I’m not familiar with how Tesla dealerships operate, especially since it’s Canada.
Eh, maybe. I appreciate your skepticism but as a former Sales Guy the ending of the iZEV program would have made sales, including fleet sales, pretty damn easy.
Let say you’ve had a company considering buying 50 EVs for their fleet and suddenly its in the news that the rebate program is ending. You now have 250,000 reasons to call the Dealership and get those vehicles under contract (Sale or Lease).
It works the other way around too. The Sales Schmuck from the dealership goes through his book of recent visitors to the dealership and calls them up. “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that the iZEV program is going to close down. So if you want to save $5,000 you should get down to the dealership right away.” so the person who was interested runs down there and inks a deal.
Those scenarios aren’t just plausible I’ve personally done them. The ending of a rebate program worth thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars is a powerful closing tool.
Also the sales numbers only appear “miraculous” if you assume that the transactions all happened in those two days when they almost certainly didn’t. A couple hundred individuals buy cars in January meanwhile the phone is ringing off the hook with fleet sales and suddenly the paperwork is behind.
Transport Canada has the paperwork, you can’t file a rebate claim without it, so its just a matter of time until the truth comes out. If Tesla tried to defraud the Canadian Government then I hope they get crucified for it.