• davel@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    Liberalism has a definition, which Marxists have never forgotten, though thanks to two red scares and a cold war, others have forgotten. Now in Orwellian fashion, “liberalism” and “socialism” are floating signifiers, so we have liberals like Sanders calling themselves socialists despite never calling for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production.

    Slavery did end under liberalism, but then again liberalism started it.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      2 years ago

      Lol I’m sure Prolewiki is an unbiased source that the majority of people would agree with on the definitions of words. /s

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        2 years ago

        It’s basically just “classical liberalism and neoliberalism”, and whether politically illiterate Americans use that word that way doesn’t matter very much from an analytical standpoint, because in political science, history, philosophy, and even just popular discourse in most other countries, the term “liberal” mainly has that meaning.

        • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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          2 years ago

          Oxford Dictionary:

          lib·er·al

          /ˈlib(ə)rəl/

          adjective

          willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.

          relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise. Similar: tolerant, unprejudiced, unbigoted, broad-minded, open-minded, enlightened, forbearing, permissive, free, free and easy, easygoing, laissez-faire, libertarian, latitudinarian, unbiased, impartial, nonpartisan, indulgent, lenient, lax, soft

          noun

          a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare. “she dissented from the decision, joined by the court’s liberals”

          a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

          Opposite: narrow-minded, bigoted,


          You are free to argue with dictionaries, but if your enemy is liberalism as defined by civil rights, democracy, and welfare then you are the enemy of all people, in my eyes.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            2 years ago

            If one is trying to define liberalism against feudalism, that definition is fine, but it’s just redditor sophomorism to act like a dictionary is a replacement for an actual historical or academic definition of a political tendency.

            • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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              2 years ago

              Take it up with oxford, Words mean what the majority believes they currently mean. Anything else is just some shit somebody made up. This discussion is about the current meaning of Liberalism in today’s political context.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                2 years ago

                Take it up with oxford

                My point is that you are misusing the dictionary as a replacement for actually knowing about a subject. People still call John Locke a liberal, and they do it because fields have definitions that aren’t colloquial.

                This discussion is about the current meaning of Liberalism in today’s political context.

                Look anywhere outside of America and it readily refers to sniveling market-fetishists. In America it only implicitly does because everyone is a market fetishist.

                • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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                  2 years ago

                  How dare I “missuse” dictionaries to “define words” which contradict your “alternative facts.”

                  and FYI, Oxford is British.

                  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    2 years ago

                    Dictionaries do not exhaustively discuss topics and the scope of meanings of terms, they give you a colloquially-oriented summary of what they mean to help you, for example, parse a conversation that uses the word in passing.

                    John Locke being a liberal isn’t an “alternative fact”, you’re just a troglodyte.