Basically, looking at history of federated messaging protocols (SMS and email), they are permanently frozen in time, and haven’t had security improvements for decades.
Signal team considers this tradeoff unacceptable, as highly targeted individuals rely on Signal to always keep it’s security model up-to-date against the most capable adversaries.
Which ones are you thinking of?
Out of the options I am aware of, Signal seems to be the most secure, most reliable, and most privacy respecting messaging app in this category.
Used to recommend XMPP (lol) but even with whatever encryption the servers still know and control too much. Like who you are chatting with (entire contact book) and when, plus attachments most of the time. And there was also the jabber <dot> ru incident… Don’t feel like pulling up the article rn but basically it got MITMed by one of the ISPs (counting the hosting provider as ISP), with a new valid TLS certificate and all.
Tox supermacy! What looser needs a backlog, pffff.
I use deltachat/arcanechat. It uses the mailchat protocol. There’s also tox, simplex, matrix, xmpp(conversations) these can do e2e, you can self host it or use a public server, everything distributed through app stores can be compromised. Every app were you rely on a central server can be shutdown. You also don’t know how the server software works of for example “signal”, what data they collect. Although messages are encrypted you can still log metadata like when where iplocation, with who?
The problem i guess with thr alternatives is bad service in terms of audio and video chat. The benefit of ms teams for example is their huge cdn. it just works nearly all over the world.
Whatsapp/discord is used by so many that it’s difficult to stay in contact otherwise.
I’ve talked to a deltachat dev about this, and the signal protocol is simply technically superior to autocrypt (used by deltachat, etc.). It gives you many more guarantees about things like forward secrecy. There is standardization work to bring these benefits to autocrypt, but it will probably be a while. Signal also has the benefit of having a familiar setup for non-techy people, so it is easier to get people to use in my experience.
I use Signal, but still wouldn’t mind adding more people to ArcaneChat because frankly, it’s more fun. The “apps” functionality and the fact that it works over email protocol is like, fascinating to me. It feels almost like the good old days of Yahoo Messenger, but encrypted! Yay!
I think it’d still be fine to use for casual use. If OPSEC is ridiculously important, there’s always Signal.
Have to admit, I also kinda hate seeing Signal show up in normiestream news more often lately. 😬
It used to be an SMS client too, to help get people on board. Now they expect you to either memorize which people use which protocols, or just use SMS.
It’s not that difficult to remember which people use which messaging apps. I use Signal, Line, Whatsapp, Matrix, Telegram, heck even Instagram DMs with different people. I try to push people to Signal whenever I can though.
I always found SMS hard to use as it is annoyingly difficult to send and receive SMS messages with a computer. Basically every other messenger works on both phones and computers. (I really dislike using a phone when I’m sitting at a computer; a device with a keyboard, larger screen(s), and the ability to easily use multiple programs at once.)
Why do people use signal? It has one centralized server and phone number registration. There are many better alternatives.
Signal people have already explained why they refuse federation.
Basically, looking at history of federated messaging protocols (SMS and email), they are permanently frozen in time, and haven’t had security improvements for decades.
Signal team considers this tradeoff unacceptable, as highly targeted individuals rely on Signal to always keep it’s security model up-to-date against the most capable adversaries.
Which ones are you thinking of? Out of the options I am aware of, Signal seems to be the most secure, most reliable, and most privacy respecting messaging app in this category.
Session, simplex, deltachat
Used to recommend XMPP (lol) but even with whatever encryption the servers still know and control too much. Like who you are chatting with (entire contact book) and when, plus attachments most of the time. And there was also the jabber <dot> ru incident… Don’t feel like pulling up the article rn but basically it got MITMed by one of the ISPs (counting the hosting provider as ISP), with a new valid TLS certificate and all.
Tox supermacy! What looser needs a backlog, pffff.
I use deltachat/arcanechat. It uses the mailchat protocol. There’s also tox, simplex, matrix, xmpp(conversations) these can do e2e, you can self host it or use a public server, everything distributed through app stores can be compromised. Every app were you rely on a central server can be shutdown. You also don’t know how the server software works of for example “signal”, what data they collect. Although messages are encrypted you can still log metadata like when where iplocation, with who?
The problem i guess with thr alternatives is bad service in terms of audio and video chat. The benefit of ms teams for example is their huge cdn. it just works nearly all over the world. Whatsapp/discord is used by so many that it’s difficult to stay in contact otherwise.
I’ve talked to a deltachat dev about this, and the signal protocol is simply technically superior to autocrypt (used by deltachat, etc.). It gives you many more guarantees about things like forward secrecy. There is standardization work to bring these benefits to autocrypt, but it will probably be a while. Signal also has the benefit of having a familiar setup for non-techy people, so it is easier to get people to use in my experience.
That’s really insightful!
I use Signal, but still wouldn’t mind adding more people to ArcaneChat because frankly, it’s more fun. The “apps” functionality and the fact that it works over email protocol is like, fascinating to me. It feels almost like the good old days of Yahoo Messenger, but encrypted! Yay!
I think it’d still be fine to use for casual use. If OPSEC is ridiculously important, there’s always Signal.
Have to admit, I also kinda hate seeing Signal show up in normiestream news more often lately. 😬
Interesting. Ease of use is one thing but requiring a phone number or email to setup an account is in my opinion annoying.
It used to be an SMS client too, to help get people on board. Now they expect you to either memorize which people use which protocols, or just use SMS.
Don’t use SMS. As it is unencrypted, the ISP have complete access over it.
“And that’s why I won’t be getting dental work here anymore!”
It’s not that difficult to remember which people use which messaging apps. I use Signal, Line, Whatsapp, Matrix, Telegram, heck even Instagram DMs with different people. I try to push people to Signal whenever I can though.
Yes it absolutely is! I just use Signal and SMS, and the Signal users seem to be dwindling.
I always found SMS hard to use as it is annoyingly difficult to send and receive SMS messages with a computer. Basically every other messenger works on both phones and computers. (I really dislike using a phone when I’m sitting at a computer; a device with a keyboard, larger screen(s), and the ability to easily use multiple programs at once.)
Stop using SMS.
“I shall never again get my car serviced here, for you refuse to upgrade messaging protocols!”