Following is in video description by @MoneyShift
The most common argument against electric cars is that once you factor in battery manufacturing and lithium mining, they aren’t actually cleaner. MIT tested that directly, and the answer is no longer ambiguous.
Researchers Marco Miotti and Jessika Trancik built a lifecycle model covering thousands of US zip codes, drilling down to individual driver behavior rather than comparing broad regions. They accounted for battery and vehicle manufacturing, fuel extraction and refining, regional electricity mix, local meteorological data, traffic density, trip length and duration, acceleration patterns, gas and electricity prices, and state fees. The study appears in Environmental Research Letters.
The concession first: building a battery is dirtier than building a comparable gas car, and an EV starts life with a larger manufacturing footprint. MIT states that plainly rather than working around it.
The findings: in most US locations, a battery electric vehicle reduces lifetime greenhouse gas emissions by 40 to 60 percent compared to a similar gas vehicle, with larger reductions in urban areas. On cold weather, MIT found that in a climate like North Dakota, efficiency can drop as much as 50 percent on a particularly frigid night, but the effect on annual emissions benefits is minimal. Miotti’s own conclusion was that even in the most unfavorable conditions, EVs still reduce emissions substantially.
On cost, EVs are competitive with comparable combustion vehicles in lifetime ownership cost across most of the country, even without clean vehicle tax credits. Where electricity is relatively affordable, battery electrics tend to cost less outright. The study also found that individual driving behavior matters roughly as much as regional electricity mix, with the biggest reductions going to people who drive more, drive larger vehicles, and spend more time in traffic.
MIT also updated their public tool at carboncounter.com, where you can compare lifecycle emissions and ownership costs for nearly any car on the market.
None of this means you have to like electric cars. Dislike the steering feel. Dislike the brake feel. Want a manual. Those are real objections. The emissions one is finished.
Car news the way Doug DeMuro, Jason Cammisa and Chris Harris cover cars, every day
Economy of scale. While I’d prefer the electricity I use to charge my car come from a clean source, a single coal plant is more efficient at producing power than however many thousand individual engines.
Okay but that still doesn’t answer the question of how much co2 is used to manufacture an EV and how that compares to running a used gas car.
(And your comment is still ignoring the efficiency factor. My car gets 40mpg the way i drive, that’s much more efficient than your average gas car. Coal plants run at about 33% efficiency, not to mention the loss of efficiency transferring the energy to the charging station and then to your car and then to the tires of your car.)
The math question, a question of arithmetic with hard numbers, is not answered by your prose virtue signalling.
You are ignoring several sources of that answer in this thread. Ford F150s don’t grow on trees.
Ah yes, I am virtue signaling, while you are taking your proud stance against the woke mob. Good on you bud.
All that out of the way, let’s look at your points:
You get 40 mpg in your current car, cool. If every car was your car and every driver drove like you that would be a good point. Considering all the massive trucks, ancient beaters, and huge SUVs I see on the road I would argue that that isn’t the case.
Regarding the efficiency issue, a 2020 study I found put ice gas engines at 11-27 percent and diesel engines at 25-37 percent. This would indicate that evs are, at worst, about a net even compared to ice cars. On top of this, carbon capture is much easier to accomplish when energy is generated at one place rather than by every individual vehicle. Also, energy wasted on transmitting power to the tire? My brother in Christ, does your car not have wheels?
Finally, this entire argument is around whether evs powered by fossil fuels are more efficient than used ice cars. This is ignoring the fact that one, used evs exist, and two, my used kia ev6 can be powered by renewables, while your ice car will only ever use gas. As we transition to a more renewable heavy energy grid, my care will get more efficient while yours at best stays the same.
Anyway, long useless rant into the void over. If you are arguing in good faith I hope I’ve brought up some good points, and if you aren’t I hope your car throws a rod.
It’s a good point for me because it’s my own fucking real life dude. The answer will be completely different for someone else, obviously.
This is what I mean by virtue signalling, you’re trying to write some narrative exposition on why everyone should get an EV car and it doesn’t address the question of what’s the fucking math behind that. You read a study, well it’d be nice if you cited it so I can read it too.
Yes obviously EV are the way of the future, but im gonna need a new car in a year or two and the theoretical long term future doesn’t factor in to what car i should buy in the near future.
How’s that rod knock treating you?
I officially have no idea at all what you’re talking about anymore, have a nice life.
I said earlier if you were arguing in bad faith I hoped your car threw a rod . Seeing as you are asking for citations while only providing anecdotal evidence, accusing me of virtue signaling rather than addressing any of my arguments, and moving the goal posts, I wish you a very merry your car has thrown a rod and needs a new engine.
There’s no argument im not debating. Im asking for information on the math of the difference between new ev versus used gas car and all you have are “arguments.”. How much C02 is emitted when manufacturing an EV? How much C02 is emitted by the power plant to provide electricity to recharge an EV. How much C02 does an ICE car emit?
Those are all questions that ask for a numeric answer. You have answered absolutely nothing. You only made your “arguments” to a debate im not interested in having. Glad this has been a waste of time for both of us.
I’ll take arguments which could have been solved if the person asking for info had taken the time to run a simple Google search for $500 please.