It’s solvable if you take surveillance capitalism out of the equation, just as Valve are doing. AR with Meta behind it will never be something that is socially acceptable since their whole business model is selling out the user and everyone around them. With a company like Valve which has a pretty good track record regarding privacy (a.k.a the only things transferred regarding usage are what games you play to make store recommendations fit your taste and bug reports if you approve them) i can see a wider adoption taking place.
I don’t think that’s true, your personal privacy as the owner of the device is one thing, everyone else’s right to not be continuously photographed is another. Having Valve operate it over meta doesn’t solve that. Also, what happens when Gabe does and the investment bank that buys it decides they want to sell everyone data to maximise profit?
These things can be done in a privacy respecting way for other parties too. The computational power needed to realize a person is in the field of view and to process this person saying “i consent” is in everyones pocket nowadays.
Honestly I don’t need a camera or anything integrated but I’d love to have an integrated screen for my glasses. Would be nice when putting things together to just sync it with my phone and just have it there, also maps. Look I have to wear glasses all the time might as well add a tiny bit more utility.
Kinda depends on the definition on that one, personally I would consider a IRL HUD to be a low level version of that since it would be intigraing those systems in a pretty intimate way.
GPS with accelerometers should be able to work out where you’re standing and where you’re facing, so you could have navigation with a floating marker over the turn you need to take instead of just having a mini-map, too.
We’ve mostly been looking in to how it can be utilized in a production environment with detailed machine stats at a glance, live setpoints without having to be near the control panel, aids for maintenance…that sort of things
The meta display glasses would be cool if not for the whole meta part. You don’t even need to be able to access the camera. It should just be used for tracking.
That’s not really AR then is it, AR requires the overlay on reality, I guess it could be like a game OSD but a lot of that detail is probably more annoying than anything. A live map might be good sometimes, but do I need my heart rate showing all the time in regular day to day life? is it helpful to have a shopping list taking up space in my vision all the time? How do I interact with it if it can’t see my hands, do I then have to talk to it constantly to manipulate it? Can other people manipulate my OSD while I’m using it by saying the right thing? Seems pretty gimmicky …
The problem isnt your privacy, it’s everyone else’s. If there are glasses with cameras then some arsehole is running around photographing people without their permission. You might argue that if you’re out in public then you can be photographed but that’s a shit attitude, if someone is walking around photographing people they should at least have to make it obvious so people can have a say at the time or at least know about it before it turns out they are now an AI deepfake pornstar.
As far as I can tell, VR is 100% fully realized. In the future, you will be able to do everything you can do in VR right now and nothing more than that, but it will be a better experience, smoother, higher res, faster frame rates.
I think that it if there were a really compelling use case, people would put up with the current technical limitations to go do it.
I think we’ll slowly see adoption rise as software support & comfort improve, but this is basically the VR landscape: sims, games, porn, and some creative stuff.
I think the only really ground breaking thing would be if res became affordable enough to replace a 70" TV at a reasonable price, that–plus how much 3D kicks ass in VR–would definitely move some units.
I get nauseated very fast with a vr headset and I don’t think it will improve, there have been several generations of improvements where people have told me they are so good now, and every time I feel like crap within a minute or two.
I think that is another major problem with vr, it’s unusable by some percentage of people that I think is significant enough to affect the market (or lack thereof).
You’re absolutely right that is a major problem. The biggest reason is the mismatch between what your inner ear says (we are not moving) and what your eyes tell you (we are moving). I get nauseous really easily in VR.
That said I just bought a steam frame and have had pretty good luck because of how I’m using it. It’s completely wireless and I have a large space I can use it in. So I’ve been playing things that don’t require fast movement and where you have a space to explore / move around in. This allows me to physically walk around the real room while exploring in VR. It’s made a huge difference but not everyone has the luxury of a big empty room they can use for that. I just mention this in case anyone else was like me and wants to do VR but gets nauseous easily.
I have the reverse issue - i have absolutely no problems with my eyes saying something’s moving and my inner ear says i am stationary as in VR, but put me in the back seat of a car without the option to focus a far away point with my eyes and i get travel sick in a few minutes (some driving styles exacerbate the problem - aggressive stop and go in city traffic makes me puke in about 15 minutes with no way to avoid it - when an acquaintance of mine drove me home i actually made him stop after about 10 minutes so i could empty my stomach into the gutter).
I’ve found an acid test for susceptibility to VR sickness. Driving in VR.
Most brains know what it feels like to be in a car, in control or otherwise. Feed in only the visuals of “being in a car” and watch the face turn green in tandem with the brain’s ancient “we’ve eaten poison!” subroutine kicking in.
In Elite: Dangerous, I can pirouette a Vulture round an asteroid field -permaboosting with flight assist off- shooting other ships all day long. Drop an SRV onto a moon and drive 100 metres, pass me the sick bucket.
I put this down to having plenty sensory memory of “car” but none of “high velocity space fighter”.
Yup, that’s definitely a real problem for broad adoption. Technically solvable, I think, if lag and frame rates improve enough, but I don’t know if it’s feasible, and there’s likely a bell curve where the cost to accomodate sensitive people isn’t worth it.
It’s also possible you could train yourself to get used to it, though it might take you more time than most, but what would be a stong enough motivation to get through that? And you’d need to basically buy a VR head set and wear it a few more seconds every day until you could get some use out of it. Pretty insane ask.
It’s like chatbots, I don’t have a use case for a computer kissing my ass. People tell me “oh set it up on your home computer and VPN in and then you can confidentially tell your sycophantic chatbot to cancel the meeting”.
The chatbot is just as likely to tell you it canceled the meeting without cancelling the meeting.
There was a recent talk by the guy that started Zoom and he was pushing an AI technology that would attend meetings for you. It was so ridiculous because the ultimate dream would be a bunch of AI chatbots attending a meeting on behalf of their operators, and what would the point of that even be?
I think it was Angela Collier on YouTube if you want to share some rage.
My current employer is pushing AI HARD. Like “throw out old processes, 10x everything, the singularity is here so we can’t work the way we always have”.
The thing is, the best use case for AI I have found is replacing middle management. The bots are pretty good at summarizing a bunch of PRs and doc updates into weekly bullet point progress updates (which is 90% of how those managers are judged). I’ve flirted with the idea of making an AI team manager to replace the helicopter EMs and PMs and let the devs focus on the dev’ing.
That idea got shut down quite quickly… wonder why.
When Amazon announced in late October that it would cut roughly 14,000 corporate positions while leaving its warehouse workforce largely untouched, it signaled something executives have been quietly preparing for: AI’s first major casualty isn’t the factory worker. It’s the middle manager.
Really the best thing about AI is that it made everybody stop trying to make vr a thing as much, because you’re right, the use cases are already spelled out and it’s pretty much a dud (in terms of being shoehorned into everything).
VR and AR both have massive unrealised potential. It just seems the tech isn’t quite there to break through just yet, especially for AR.
That’s because the company that is behind most of the stuff being released is Meta. Noone likes Meta. I can’t even imagine Zuck liking Meta.
I’m in my 40s and I just want to let you know that people have been saying this since I was 16.
Which is one of many reasons I’m not running out to buy a VR/AR rig.
AR has so many unsolvable privacy issues it’s wild …
It’s solvable if you take surveillance capitalism out of the equation, just as Valve are doing. AR with Meta behind it will never be something that is socially acceptable since their whole business model is selling out the user and everyone around them. With a company like Valve which has a pretty good track record regarding privacy (a.k.a the only things transferred regarding usage are what games you play to make store recommendations fit your taste and bug reports if you approve them) i can see a wider adoption taking place.
I don’t think that’s true, your personal privacy as the owner of the device is one thing, everyone else’s right to not be continuously photographed is another. Having Valve operate it over meta doesn’t solve that. Also, what happens when Gabe does and the investment bank that buys it decides they want to sell everyone data to maximise profit?
These things can be done in a privacy respecting way for other parties too. The computational power needed to realize a person is in the field of view and to process this person saying “i consent” is in everyones pocket nowadays.
Honestly I don’t need a camera or anything integrated but I’d love to have an integrated screen for my glasses. Would be nice when putting things together to just sync it with my phone and just have it there, also maps. Look I have to wear glasses all the time might as well add a tiny bit more utility.
That’s not AR though is it?
Kinda depends on the definition on that one, personally I would consider a IRL HUD to be a low level version of that since it would be intigraing those systems in a pretty intimate way.
GPS with accelerometers should be able to work out where you’re standing and where you’re facing, so you could have navigation with a floating marker over the turn you need to take instead of just having a mini-map, too.
Maybe but I’d personally prefer the mini-map, I’ve a built up hatred of floating way points.
We’ve mostly been looking in to how it can be utilized in a production environment with detailed machine stats at a glance, live setpoints without having to be near the control panel, aids for maintenance…that sort of things
That could be helpful, I think most tech and inlecs would find it more annoying than anything …
The meta display glasses would be cool if not for the whole meta part. You don’t even need to be able to access the camera. It should just be used for tracking.
That’s not really AR then is it, AR requires the overlay on reality, I guess it could be like a game OSD but a lot of that detail is probably more annoying than anything. A live map might be good sometimes, but do I need my heart rate showing all the time in regular day to day life? is it helpful to have a shopping list taking up space in my vision all the time? How do I interact with it if it can’t see my hands, do I then have to talk to it constantly to manipulate it? Can other people manipulate my OSD while I’m using it by saying the right thing? Seems pretty gimmicky …
No, not what I meant. I meant environment tracking, hand tracking, everything.
WE don’t need access to the camera for AR to work, the device just needs to be able to process the video stream.
The problem isnt your privacy, it’s everyone else’s. If there are glasses with cameras then some arsehole is running around photographing people without their permission. You might argue that if you’re out in public then you can be photographed but that’s a shit attitude, if someone is walking around photographing people they should at least have to make it obvious so people can have a say at the time or at least know about it before it turns out they are now an AI deepfake pornstar.
at least in the US you don’t need permission to record people in public spaces.
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of money in that market anymore, since it’s not AI.
Hard disagree on VR.
As far as I can tell, VR is 100% fully realized. In the future, you will be able to do everything you can do in VR right now and nothing more than that, but it will be a better experience, smoother, higher res, faster frame rates.
I think that it if there were a really compelling use case, people would put up with the current technical limitations to go do it.
I think we’ll slowly see adoption rise as software support & comfort improve, but this is basically the VR landscape: sims, games, porn, and some creative stuff.
I think the only really ground breaking thing would be if res became affordable enough to replace a 70" TV at a reasonable price, that–plus how much 3D kicks ass in VR–would definitely move some units.
VR is cheap enough to replace a TV, just not good enough yet.
I get nauseated very fast with a vr headset and I don’t think it will improve, there have been several generations of improvements where people have told me they are so good now, and every time I feel like crap within a minute or two.
I think that is another major problem with vr, it’s unusable by some percentage of people that I think is significant enough to affect the market (or lack thereof).
You’re absolutely right that is a major problem. The biggest reason is the mismatch between what your inner ear says (we are not moving) and what your eyes tell you (we are moving). I get nauseous really easily in VR.
That said I just bought a steam frame and have had pretty good luck because of how I’m using it. It’s completely wireless and I have a large space I can use it in. So I’ve been playing things that don’t require fast movement and where you have a space to explore / move around in. This allows me to physically walk around the real room while exploring in VR. It’s made a huge difference but not everyone has the luxury of a big empty room they can use for that. I just mention this in case anyone else was like me and wants to do VR but gets nauseous easily.
I have the reverse issue - i have absolutely no problems with my eyes saying something’s moving and my inner ear says i am stationary as in VR, but put me in the back seat of a car without the option to focus a far away point with my eyes and i get travel sick in a few minutes (some driving styles exacerbate the problem - aggressive stop and go in city traffic makes me puke in about 15 minutes with no way to avoid it - when an acquaintance of mine drove me home i actually made him stop after about 10 minutes so i could empty my stomach into the gutter).
I’ve found an acid test for susceptibility to VR sickness. Driving in VR.
Most brains know what it feels like to be in a car, in control or otherwise. Feed in only the visuals of “being in a car” and watch the face turn green in tandem with the brain’s ancient “we’ve eaten poison!” subroutine kicking in.
In Elite: Dangerous, I can pirouette a Vulture round an asteroid field -permaboosting with flight assist off- shooting other ships all day long. Drop an SRV onto a moon and drive 100 metres, pass me the sick bucket.
I put this down to having plenty sensory memory of “car” but none of “high velocity space fighter”.
Yup, that’s definitely a real problem for broad adoption. Technically solvable, I think, if lag and frame rates improve enough, but I don’t know if it’s feasible, and there’s likely a bell curve where the cost to accomodate sensitive people isn’t worth it.
It’s also possible you could train yourself to get used to it, though it might take you more time than most, but what would be a stong enough motivation to get through that? And you’d need to basically buy a VR head set and wear it a few more seconds every day until you could get some use out of it. Pretty insane ask.
It’s like chatbots, I don’t have a use case for a computer kissing my ass. People tell me “oh set it up on your home computer and VPN in and then you can confidentially tell your sycophantic chatbot to cancel the meeting”.
I would rather just cancel the meeting?
The chatbot is just as likely to tell you it canceled the meeting without cancelling the meeting.
There was a recent talk by the guy that started Zoom and he was pushing an AI technology that would attend meetings for you. It was so ridiculous because the ultimate dream would be a bunch of AI chatbots attending a meeting on behalf of their operators, and what would the point of that even be?
I think it was Angela Collier on YouTube if you want to share some rage.
My current employer is pushing AI HARD. Like “throw out old processes, 10x everything, the singularity is here so we can’t work the way we always have”.
The thing is, the best use case for AI I have found is replacing middle management. The bots are pretty good at summarizing a bunch of PRs and doc updates into weekly bullet point progress updates (which is 90% of how those managers are judged). I’ve flirted with the idea of making an AI team manager to replace the helicopter EMs and PMs and let the devs focus on the dev’ing.
That idea got shut down quite quickly… wonder why.
Good news:
https://peoplemanagingpeople.com/hr-strategy/ai-middle-management/
Wait, if they get rid of PM’s who is going to hop out during a long tense meeting and get donuts and coffee?
This seems really short sighted.
+1
Severe motion sickness issues, even in traditional games, are more common than people think.
I can’t play Wolfenstein 3D because of that.
Yeah I don’t enjoy watching other people play FPS games either.
Really the best thing about AI is that it made everybody stop trying to make vr a thing as much, because you’re right, the use cases are already spelled out and it’s pretty much a dud (in terms of being shoehorned into everything).
You have to admit, though, the Metaverse was one solid comedy highlights reel from beginning to end.