to give you some context, in the US there is no popular vote for presidency.
I’m aware, and I’m also a vocal opponent of the FPTP system that produces the spoiler effect in the first place, without which the whole question would be moot. But as you said, there is little incentive for either of the big parties to change the system that keeps them in power. Frankly, if there is to be any hope for democratic change, I think that thing has to be the fdreamto go.
my vote for president in the general has essentially zero impact. the democrats win by such a large margin that voting no confidence or for communists running 3rd party is more ‘useful’ under the reform-electoral framework than voting for the democrats. getting a party that challenges capital to a non-negligible percentage is what communists should do if the option is available.
if anything it’s the ‘blue no matter who’ browbeating which is serving to suppress left-wing dissent in the party. there are a lot of states in the country where that’s the wrong position. if democrats had anti-capitalist 3rd party challengers in safe blue states, they might actually have to be something other than diet republicans.
Yeah, that’s what I meant (unless I forgot to add it) with voting third party in places where it doesn’t matter. Even in places where democrats lose by a large margin, third party would be a reasonable choice for sending that signal. Imagine their faces if they came in third in a red state… Ah, one can dream.
i vote for whatever progressive challengers there are in the primaries, however this year there has been a widespread pattern of democrats winning their primaries and then abandoning trans people. every day there’s a new campaign ad from democrats across the country talking about ‘protecting girls sports’.
Okay, this is definitely an issue of perspective on my part. I didn’t see as much of that, but you’ll obviously be far more sensitive to that issue. Yeah, no debate, that’s fucked up.
they were arrested.
Something something bastards…
the reason ‘libs’ are so broadly hated is because they serve capital and protect institutions over people.
The difficulty I have with this is that I occadionally see people decried as libs that don’t seem to share that sentiment. This might not be you specifically, but there is a vocal part of the fediverse that seems bent on putting people in boxes to beat on. I’ve also been called liberal before because I disagreed with someone on some point. I might have well been wrong then, as I have been here too on some points, and I know I’m not entitled to any correction, but instead of any nuanced treatment, my entire worldview was reduced to that interpretation of my statement.
In short, my concern is that the label “libs” has been (mis-)used so broadly that I’m not convinced your statement holds for everyone who has been subjected to that designation.
To be clear, I’m not saying that it doesn’t apply to actual liberals. I’m right with you on hating people that think a CEO making several hundred times as much as the person cleaning their pissoir is justified, respond to any mention of police violence with the same anecdote about a cocktail being thrown at cops that one time or tilt at the “leftist lunatics” for being disruptive with their protests. Those are all personal examples I’ve picked fights over.
I’m saying there’s a demography of political “orphans” that want things to get better, don’t know any other system than the one they’ve grown up in and default to liberalism out of ignorance and uncertainty. In my opinion, they don’t deserve the same hatred, and I feel we should be more precise in that regard.
That said, I absolutely understand that you’ve got enough troubles and, after worrying about healthcare, livelihood and the right to exist,
don’t have the nerve or patience to spare to also worry about the distinction between those who hurt you and those who watch it happen and do nothing. I mistook that for arrogance, but I agree that you don’t owe anyone that charity.
I’m very glad you went to this length to talk to me and show me perspectives I genuinely didn’t know. You’ve given me things to think about, to talk to other people about, to check my own preconceptions.
I’m aware, and I’m also a vocal opponent of the FPTP system that produces the spoiler effect in the first place, without which the whole question would be moot. But as you said, there is little incentive for either of the big parties to change the system that keeps them in power. Frankly, if there is to be any hope for democratic change, I think that thing has to be the fdreamto go.
Yeah, that’s what I meant (unless I forgot to add it) with voting third party in places where it doesn’t matter. Even in places where democrats lose by a large margin, third party would be a reasonable choice for sending that signal. Imagine their faces if they came in third in a red state… Ah, one can dream.
Okay, this is definitely an issue of perspective on my part. I didn’t see as much of that, but you’ll obviously be far more sensitive to that issue. Yeah, no debate, that’s fucked up.
Something something bastards…
The difficulty I have with this is that I occadionally see people decried as libs that don’t seem to share that sentiment. This might not be you specifically, but there is a vocal part of the fediverse that seems bent on putting people in boxes to beat on. I’ve also been called liberal before because I disagreed with someone on some point. I might have well been wrong then, as I have been here too on some points, and I know I’m not entitled to any correction, but instead of any nuanced treatment, my entire worldview was reduced to that interpretation of my statement.
In short, my concern is that the label “libs” has been (mis-)used so broadly that I’m not convinced your statement holds for everyone who has been subjected to that designation.
To be clear, I’m not saying that it doesn’t apply to actual liberals. I’m right with you on hating people that think a CEO making several hundred times as much as the person cleaning their pissoir is justified, respond to any mention of police violence with the same anecdote about a cocktail being thrown at cops that one time or tilt at the “leftist lunatics” for being disruptive with their protests. Those are all personal examples I’ve picked fights over.
I’m saying there’s a demography of political “orphans” that want things to get better, don’t know any other system than the one they’ve grown up in and default to liberalism out of ignorance and uncertainty. In my opinion, they don’t deserve the same hatred, and I feel we should be more precise in that regard.
That said, I absolutely understand that you’ve got enough troubles and, after worrying about healthcare, livelihood and the right to exist, don’t have the nerve or patience to spare to also worry about the distinction between those who hurt you and those who watch it happen and do nothing. I mistook that for arrogance, but I agree that you don’t owe anyone that charity.
I’m very glad you went to this length to talk to me and show me perspectives I genuinely didn’t know. You’ve given me things to think about, to talk to other people about, to check my own preconceptions.
I hope things get better for you.