This was enough for me to jump ship, after some research fastmail seems to meet my needs. Sure its not a perfect replacement but im willing to miss out on some features to avoid funding this kind of behaviour. Voted with my wallet
Crap, time to drop Proton and find an alternative.
The same CEO who, a while ago, praised the Republicans? How can a company under someone like that ever be “privacy first”? If I remember correctly, there were a lot of people acting as if this wouldn’t affect the products in of itself, but how could it not?
I get downvoted on Lemmy every time I point this out. It’s like clockwork.
My thoughts exactly! I was banned on a Reddit sub for critiquing him. Seems he really has his fanboys.
yikes… i need to dump proton.
“Stop thinking always of how to be slower, and focus more on how to be faster.”
It’s not “how to be slower” but “how to be safer and ensure we deliver a product that holds up to what we’re portraying it as.”
“how to have time to do my job”
These fuckers treat us like machines.
I switched to Mullvad and Tuta yesterday. Still working on moving password managers. I’ve let some things slide in the past but Yen has turned into such a big asshole. Proton deserves a better CEO.
Holy shit, well that slipped through my research. Time to checkout IVPN, maybe?
I switched to IVPN. So far so good.
Literally a Nazbol, a joke ideology indistinguishable from just being a Nazi in red. Being a true believer makes him a Nazi and pushing Nazis as spoilers makes him, guess what, a Nazi.
It’d be one thing if he got pushed out afterwards but the reality is Mullvad’s founders support ethnic cleansing, and as much as I don’t like Yen I don’t think the timing of their compliments can attach that sin to them, provably.
Isnt the founder of mullvad just as much of an asshole funding far right politics etc ? Not meant as a criticism of you, I’m in the same boat trying to move my stuff and its so fucking frustrating that so many of these companies are either led by psychopaths or being enshittified in other ways. I guess I’m looking more and more at self hosting shit again, but that also scares me a bit for stuff like email and password managers and hardware prices are insane… But either way I’m definitely spreading everything out to different companies this time… Not looking forward to changing my login email on every single website again after just having moved it to proton about 2 years ago…
So far I’ve come up with:
Email: Tuta seems okay
PW-Manager: Found no good service yet, self hosting Vaultwarden seems like an option but I read some concerning things about changing company structures at Bitwarde wich it depends on that implies them possibly moving away from FOSS
VPN: Dont know honestly
Calendar: Im with murena from /e/os seems fine for now
Cloud Storage: Dont really need this, as i have everything on my server but i need a better backup strategy for that server and my god harddisk prices are crazy…
Yeah i completely missed that during my research and am back using Proton until my subscription expires. I had a custom domain which made switching to Tuta easier
I wish I could just throw out email and calendars as a service and still live in the modern world. I really don’t like my only options for them being having to host it myself with all the pitfalls that can come with or using services controlled by data brokers like Google, shit heads like this guy apparently is, or our way or the highway gatekeepers like Apple.
I just want to give someone money to let me point my domain at it for email services and host my calendar without any drama or BS. Why does that concept have to be so complicated these days?
I use StartMail for email and I’ve been pleased so far. You can bring your own domain (though that might be restricted to annual subscriptions, like $60/yr), bring your own PGP key or have them generate one for you, and you get unlimited alias addresses.
I’m just waiting for the day to hear one of the founders eats babies or something, but they seem alright for now. It’s from the same company as StartPage, which very early on was providing a proxy to Google search for increased privacy.
They aren’t without concern based on their parent company. But they offer me enough features to mitigate that they seam leagues ahead of Google or Yahoo for mail.
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Sounds like a looser.
I guess I’ll say it here, but I have always had weird feelings about proton. They are always marked as the top of privacy alternatives to Google. I was never sold on it though and figured that the shit would hit the fan eventually
Andy Yen, the CEO of Proton, had a message for an employee in the company’s security Slack channel who urged the company to at least take a few days to pentest newly written code before pushing it live. “That’s bullshit and loser thinking. Of course it’s possible to be fast and secure,” Yen wrote in the channel at the end of August. “Stop thinking always of how to be slower, and focus more on how to be faster.”
In a follow-up message, Yen reiterated his point: “only losers think like that.” His ultimate message for the team was to “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”
This sounds like the most insecure loser statement I’ve ever heard. Andy Yen and the rest of the Proton Execs seem to have fully bought into the man-o-sphere in the same way that every basement incel has.
I’m not at all surprised by a lot of men in tech coming out as insufferable insecure weird little guys, but what I continue to be amazed by is how many of them seem to not understand how technology works at all. It seems every tech company is another Apple, run by some freak who got lucky and found a talented tech guy whose work they could exploit.
To be fair, Classic Jobs & Woz™ were OG, and Jobs knew he wasn’t a tech guy like Woz and more to the point (afahwc) that was how technology should work - for people to not know or care how it worked under the hood.
But since the explosion of social media, yeah, way too many “companies” run by nerd hitlers getting traction for garbage “products”. There are good products out there but they don’t have the reach because they aren’t in the pedo cabal. *cough* metaphorically speaking *cough*
Yeah, Jobs didn’t kid himself to think he had the skills, he only fooled his cult. And he was great salesman, so it’s not a perfect comparison.
well, actually, that talented tech guy (Jobs). founded the company and was later forced out. he got back in when they came back and groveled as he was developing NeXTStep OS and hardware.
but point understood.
I was thinking of Woz.
It’s impossible to argue that Jobs didn’t have a sharp eye for marketing, but most of the brilliance Apple got famous for was other people’s work paired with Jobs’ marketing. And Jobs was a complete fucking weirdo, from abusing his employees to dying because he refused to accept other forms of cancer treatment than eating fucking fruit.
I hate winner mentality. Competition is an artifact left over from our evolution and society has historically reinforced it because it resulted in better outcomes for the in group to the detriment of the whole. Eventually we’ve reached a point where people can compete against each other on unimportant things for no reason other than competing, which was also celebrated as a spectacle. Now we’re at the point where people are applying the same “competition for competition’s sake” attitude to things that do matter even to the detriment of the in group and themselves. And it is still celebrated because competition and winning has such a strong association with betterment in our culture. We will not improve as a society until we start viewing the desire to win as antisocial behavior.
It’s a spectacle.
Well formulated! Those managers probably have a gene thinking “if I’m better, then it’s I who will get laid” or something.
I was out as soon as this dropped but anyone still in may want to reconsider.
Yup. Same. Gone within a week of that one. Told was “over reacting”
When they show you who they are, believe them. The first time.
He was actually correct on that one, and Gail was ousted shortly after for not complying with the tyrant.
His statements in response were much less accurate
He was not correct, Republicans don’t stand for small businesses at all, maybe the specific move was good, but all the other groveling was completely unnecessary.
I was clearly referring to Slater
I know. You mean appointing Slater was a good move, and I don’t disagree, my point is that Yen complimented way more than that decision and that is what was wrong…
I hate when people spew this kind of crap, just because he said trump did something good (which is was apparently) it doesn’t mean that he’s a maga or something. If only Mullvad was hold to the same standards…
Now we have a real bad take, so let’s deal with that.
Holy fuckin shit, what a jackass
It’s hard to imagine someone more intimately familiar with “loser thinking” than Andy Yen. Go gargle Trump’s balls some more and bully your workers who actually want to build without security concerns. I’m staying far, far away from anything Proton…
i’m just so goddamn pissed off. i am too overwhelmed with life and health stuff to have to worry about what my email client is up to. i dont have many switchovers left in me, boss
You fight the fights you can, and you make peace with the fights you can’t. This is a marathon, you have to maintain yourself to keep running - that’s human nature and okay. We all can’t make 100% optimal and good choices. Do what you can, educate yourself and others, grow; but also rest, enjoy, and don’t let things wear on you if you can help it.
Everyone needs a break. There’s always another chance to cancel, later.
Anyway, I canceled an extra time today, in your honor. (It seemed like their cancelation server was overwhelmed - I was getting timeouts. Naturally I reloaded each page a few times to be sure, because fuck everything about this.)
I’m giving them a month to fire Yen and change direction or I’m out. I’m also looking for good recommendations of where to go - so far I’m looking at Tuta or Murena (my phone is already on /e/OS)
I just mailbox.org with a custom domain and it’s been great, no complaints.
I never liked proton’s app suite approach instead of picking one or two things and getting good at them so I’ve replaced all other services with other options.
I’ve been using Tuta for 8 or so years now and outside some rare technical issues years ago, I’ve been pretty happy with it. I’m also not aware of any drama they’d be involved in so they have that going for them.
The horrible search turned me off. I wish it made sense to support tuta but it was painful a year or two ago when I switched. Has it gotten any better?
I don’t really use search but I can play around with it to see how it is now. Is there anything specific that bothered you about it I should keep in mind?
It defaulted to only searching from the same day. If you pick a longer search range it warns you that it will take a while, and it does (did)
Holy shit this CEO is fully unhinged, I feel so much for the employees at Proton. What the fuck. I like Proton products T.T
I have never bought into the Proton hate seen on Lemmy, as most if not all of it came from a fundamental misunderstanding of how technology works. And if anything, this report confirms that the employees inside Proton really do seem to care about the product.
But ultimately, if the CEO is this hostile internally, those employees will leave and the product will just enshittify at an exponential rate. This is actually some very damning insight into the future of Proton.
Proton has a couple competitors that are viable to switch to, if not somewhat half baked next to Proton. But it’s important to understand for the people who have been berating Proton for handing over metadata to authorities and similar things, that Tutanota and other competitors will have all the same problems. Tuta is based in Germany which is a member of 14 eyes, and will if anything be more susceptible to the whims of the US government than Proton was.
I don’t really care if they hand metadata to authorities. I want to replace “we give you free services, in return we spy on you, then we ALSO want you to pay us later and we’ll still spy on you” with “pay us for our services, we literally can’t spy on you bc of encryption”.
Whoever has that will get my money, (well, except Proton because fuck that CEO).
You’d be surprised at how many people on Lemmy have decided Proton is lying to people and secretly sharing all your data with US authorities because of the handful of times they have been ordered to by law hand over metadata that does not include the content of their data.
These people then say to ditch Proton and use Tutanota instead as if they they somehow won’t be compelled to do the exact same thing.
Lemmy is odd. Its more tech aware then reddit yet some how just had ignorant and stupid as reddit on tech related matters.
I think it’s just anyone who actually understands or has a reasonable take don’t bother engaging with the stupid.
While the idiots open their mouths.
Proton ain’t perfect and yen is an idiot. But some one the claims I’ve seen about proton baffle me.
People literally expect Proton to break the law. That’s what lavabit did and it was their demise.
Or to use Mullvad…
I also would like to have a perfect VPN & mail client, but for now nothing beats proton it seems (fuck that loser CEO attitude though, what the hell).
Andy Yen’s political afilliations are one thing, but this does indicate an imminent decline in the function of the product.
I haven’t seen this view. I mostly see people defending Andy Yen when anyone brings up the first red flags he dropped
It’s not a misunderstanding. I hate them because they deal in crypto.
Proton uses cryptography, thats applied mathematics, not bitcoin lol.
You can help us by spreading this https://molecule.build/
we need collective worker power at proton
You’d be surprised how many companies have CEO’s like this. Mine is the same way. Use AI or get fired is becoming very standard.
Proton products have been great for me, I use them all every day. Not renewing when my sub is up and I’ll quote Andy Yen as why.
So what are the alternatives?
Haven’t done enough research to say yet. Others have been suggesting in the thread. Might self host my passwords. Email seems the easiest switch with the most options. Cloud storage, not sure yet; I need a decent amount of it for crucial backups.
Well, that’s the problem IMO, there isn’t really a perfect alternative.
I never claimed that there was.
I didn’t say you were 🤷🏼♀️
I suppose I’m just confused at the purpose of the sentiment, then. Not having a perfect alternative is not a good excuse to continue supporting Proton with its current leadership and direction.
AI psychosis
The “anti big tech” that want’s to burn CLAUDE tokens instead of hiring engineers…
