I just want to point out that this particular line of logic deadends in fascism. Look at the US government. Look at all forms of centralization.
The point isn’t efficiency, which is arguable what with how quickly data centers burn through ram sticks and other parts. We burn resources faster when we centralize, in most cases, where applicable.
The point of centralization is always about control. Specifically, the few in control of the many.
It’s a little bit funny to see people talking about the benefits of centralization on a website that was built to be part of a larger decentralized network. As if we’re not here because of the problems with control and censorship in centralization. Reddit has a history of silencing leftist voices, yet those voices are more “free” to speak here on the Fediverse.
The entire point of the original structure of the internet was to build resilient communication networks for the military so if one node went down, a new path could be routed around the broken node.
Centralization absolutely leads to fascism because it gives all the controls to a handful of people who aren’t responsive to democracy.
Our representatives do not represent our interests because they are so far removed from us. We honestly need far more representatives representing far fewer people (like maybe a few hundred per representative) because then a rep has to be on a first name basis with their constituents and understand them because there are so few they represent. Either that or we need to bite the bullet and go direct-democracy and just have senators and house representatives just be figureheads who help write bills, with citizens having the final vote on each bill.
Yes, exactly, building parallel systems that actually cater to the needs of the local populace. Interconnecting those systems via federation sounds key to making it work!
Well… sometimes, in my view at least, centralization (or relatedly, government-run) things can be beneficial for society; specifically the things that aren’t easily profitable, yet are a net benefit to all.
Medical research (into cures, not profitable ‘treatments’ requiring a lifetime prescription); public roads; food safety standards-enforcement. These things might not be profitable, but we all want them, so it makes sense that government might run them on our behalf, eg. centralized rather than all of use needing to do our own medical research, or maintain our own roads, or check our food in case it’s been adulterated because no one sees a profit in keeping it healthy.
We burn resources faster when we centralize, in most cases, where applicable.
Centralisation is generally more efficient due to various economies of scale such as fixed capital costs, greater division of labour and larger R&D budgets. Since centralised facilities are more efficient, they will gradually outcompete and buy out / drive out smaller competitors. There are two ways to deal with the negative consequences of this tendency - (1) give smaller competitors an advantage by breaking up / penalising the largest ones, or (2) bringing the largest competitors under public control through nationalisation. But the centralising tendency itself is a sort of natural economic law that applies under most conditions.
The point of centralization is always about control.
I just want to point out that this particular line of logic deadends in fascism. Look at the US government. Look at all forms of centralization.
The point isn’t efficiency, which is arguable what with how quickly data centers burn through ram sticks and other parts. We burn resources faster when we centralize, in most cases, where applicable.
The point of centralization is always about control. Specifically, the few in control of the many.
It’s a little bit funny to see people talking about the benefits of centralization on a website that was built to be part of a larger decentralized network. As if we’re not here because of the problems with control and censorship in centralization. Reddit has a history of silencing leftist voices, yet those voices are more “free” to speak here on the Fediverse.
The entire point of the original structure of the internet was to build resilient communication networks for the military so if one node went down, a new path could be routed around the broken node.
Centralization absolutely leads to fascism because it gives all the controls to a handful of people who aren’t responsive to democracy.
Our representatives do not represent our interests because they are so far removed from us. We honestly need far more representatives representing far fewer people (like maybe a few hundred per representative) because then a rep has to be on a first name basis with their constituents and understand them because there are so few they represent. Either that or we need to bite the bullet and go direct-democracy and just have senators and house representatives just be figureheads who help write bills, with citizens having the final vote on each bill.
This is why, as an anarchist, the next viable step I see is federated cooperatives. Localized for local needs, connected for national ones.
But that’s if we get socialism off the ground in the US. It’s looking promising.
Yes, exactly, building parallel systems that actually cater to the needs of the local populace. Interconnecting those systems via federation sounds key to making it work!
That’s a super simplistic statement. There are many more reasons for that, and this one isn’t even among the top of the list.
Well… sometimes, in my view at least, centralization (or relatedly, government-run) things can be beneficial for society; specifically the things that aren’t easily profitable, yet are a net benefit to all.
Medical research (into cures, not profitable ‘treatments’ requiring a lifetime prescription); public roads; food safety standards-enforcement. These things might not be profitable, but we all want them, so it makes sense that government might run them on our behalf, eg. centralized rather than all of use needing to do our own medical research, or maintain our own roads, or check our food in case it’s been adulterated because no one sees a profit in keeping it healthy.
I agree with you. But the abuses are still there, they just aren’t being exploited. Yet. Still, it may be the best we can do. I honestly don’t know.
Ultimately, I believe one good king does not justify a succession of bad ones. I rather we not deal with kings at all.
Centralisation is generally more efficient due to various economies of scale such as fixed capital costs, greater division of labour and larger R&D budgets. Since centralised facilities are more efficient, they will gradually outcompete and buy out / drive out smaller competitors. There are two ways to deal with the negative consequences of this tendency - (1) give smaller competitors an advantage by breaking up / penalising the largest ones, or (2) bringing the largest competitors under public control through nationalisation. But the centralising tendency itself is a sort of natural economic law that applies under most conditions.
This is a consequence, not a cause.