Voting for establishment politicians yes. If everyone voted 3rd party they’d have to do some real gymnastics to hold onto power and that would seriously undermine people’s faith in the system
Ah yes, world famous anti-imperialist country Russia, which never invades other countries. What are the nukes for, you may ask? Scientific purposes only of course.
I’ve heard that exact same argument from Trump supporters for why they voted for Trump since 2016 up until 2024, and look where that got us.
It’s possible to both vote for a lesser evil (or in some rarer cases, even incremental change) and organize against a capitalist system at the same time.
Don’t you find it odd that every election is “the most important election in the history of the universe! Democracy itself is on the ballot!”. Yet no matter which “side” wins, material conditions just get worse and worse and worse and worse? Lesser evilism doesn’t work. It simply doesn’t. Doesn’t it bother you that the same billionaires funding Trump and Reps are the same ones funding the Dems? Doesn’t it bother you that no matter how much “control” the “good guys” have in office, there’s always a handful that vote against party lines to roadblock any progressive measures? Isn’t it odd that everything is a half measure … “progressive” policies sill have half of America unable to afford a 1 bedroom apartment, are drowning in medical and student debt, etc? None of these people work for you. They work for their corporate/capitalist interests.
When dems were in control, we were still bombing countries, sanctioning and inflicting misery around the world, approving record funding for ICE and Homeland security, still had kids in cages, still torturing people in guantanamo, people couldn’t afford rent, or the doctor, or basic necessities, real wages have been stagnant since the 70s., etc. By all means vote for the lesser evil, but conditions will not materially improve within a system that will not allow material conditions to improve meaningfully. Take small wins where we can, but acknowledge that it’s simply a bandaid.
Encouragement to avoid voting, in this context, is clearly favorable to Trump’s side
Why is not voting always assumed to help Republicans? Surely there’s Republicans who stay home as well? But to clarify, I’m encouraging people to vote for the best candidate that meets their expectations, not to just blindly vote blue no matter who. “It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” - Eugene V. Debs
Voting for the lesser evil won’t make things better, just less worse than if it was the worst evil.
Revolt is needed for improvement.
Revolt needs that people get involved in politics rather than submit to it as slaves.
Discouraging vote is mostly to discourage from participating in politics.
Encouraging to care about politics encourages to vote and to follow decision made. It comes with critics of that decisions, and can lead to revolts, and therefore improvements.
Those planning to do a revolution “later” just sell fake dreams. If you offer a revolution now, do it clearly, and make it start now. It needs to be obvious who is behind it, and what the revolt is for.
As long as you can’t overthrow the system, make your best so that the people’s life doesn’t go too wrong, even when it implies voting for some bastards because they are at some point less dangerous than the other bastards.
With who will it be easier to negociate? On who will it be easier to put a pressure that has a chance to bring positive results?
Voting is easier than revolution, but we still need both.
No, voting serves as pressure relief against the revolution, its what the capitalists want you to do
Voting for establishment politicians yes. If everyone voted 3rd party they’d have to do some real gymnastics to hold onto power and that would seriously undermine people’s faith in the system
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Yes, imperialist Amerikkka needs to crash and burn so a proper revolution can rise up, liberal
It appears to just keep crashing and burning harder, with no limit in sight.
So Russia/China can take advantage of the power vacuum, you mean.
and don’t forget so millions of people can die for their aggrandized, high-minded ideas they post to lemmy with literally no path for implementation
2 anti-imperialist nations, how horrible.
Ah yes, world famous anti-imperialist country Russia, which never invades other countries. What are the nukes for, you may ask? Scientific purposes only of course.
lol
Yeah keep this up. You’re super good at articulating your position in a calm, thoughtful way. I can see it convincing a lot of people.
I’ve heard that exact same argument from Trump supporters for why they voted for Trump since 2016 up until 2024, and look where that got us.
It’s possible to both vote for a lesser evil (or in some rarer cases, even incremental change) and organize against a capitalist system at the same time.
No, because the “lesser” evil is intentionally propped up by the bourgeois and is often not any less evil
Wild that this comment is getting downvoted so heavily in a “progressive” community.
Support for the worst evil isn’t liked in a progressive community.
Encouragement to avoid voting, in this context, is clearly favorable to Trump’s side. If that is your point, assume it as it is.
Don’t you find it odd that every election is “the most important election in the history of the universe! Democracy itself is on the ballot!”. Yet no matter which “side” wins, material conditions just get worse and worse and worse and worse? Lesser evilism doesn’t work. It simply doesn’t. Doesn’t it bother you that the same billionaires funding Trump and Reps are the same ones funding the Dems? Doesn’t it bother you that no matter how much “control” the “good guys” have in office, there’s always a handful that vote against party lines to roadblock any progressive measures? Isn’t it odd that everything is a half measure … “progressive” policies sill have half of America unable to afford a 1 bedroom apartment, are drowning in medical and student debt, etc? None of these people work for you. They work for their corporate/capitalist interests.
When dems were in control, we were still bombing countries, sanctioning and inflicting misery around the world, approving record funding for ICE and Homeland security, still had kids in cages, still torturing people in guantanamo, people couldn’t afford rent, or the doctor, or basic necessities, real wages have been stagnant since the 70s., etc. By all means vote for the lesser evil, but conditions will not materially improve within a system that will not allow material conditions to improve meaningfully. Take small wins where we can, but acknowledge that it’s simply a bandaid.
Why is not voting always assumed to help Republicans? Surely there’s Republicans who stay home as well? But to clarify, I’m encouraging people to vote for the best candidate that meets their expectations, not to just blindly vote blue no matter who. “It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” - Eugene V. Debs
Voting for the lesser evil won’t make things better, just less worse than if it was the worst evil.
Revolt is needed for improvement.
Revolt needs that people get involved in politics rather than submit to it as slaves.
Discouraging vote is mostly to discourage from participating in politics.
Encouraging to care about politics encourages to vote and to follow decision made. It comes with critics of that decisions, and can lead to revolts, and therefore improvements.
Those planning to do a revolution “later” just sell fake dreams. If you offer a revolution now, do it clearly, and make it start now. It needs to be obvious who is behind it, and what the revolt is for.
As long as you can’t overthrow the system, make your best so that the people’s life doesn’t go too wrong, even when it implies voting for some bastards because they are at some point less dangerous than the other bastards.
With who will it be easier to negociate? On who will it be easier to put a pressure that has a chance to bring positive results?