• SuperDuperKool@lemmy.cafe
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    4 hours ago

    Then let’s fucking bomb them. Let’s see how you like getting warcrimed and have nobody to turn to. Scumbags

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    15 hours ago

    Then remove Hungary from the EU

    You can’t be a dictatorship that ignores international law by simply withdrawing yourself from treaties

    Hungary wants to join Russia, let it

    • SuperDuperKool@lemmy.cafe
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      4 hours ago

      You seems under the impression the NATO is some sort of benevolant force lmao. They support dictators all the fucking time.

        • SuperDuperKool@lemmy.cafe
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          3 hours ago

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/06/pinochet.chile

          Greece (1967-1974): In 1967, a military junta seized power in Greece, creating a dictatorship that lasted until 1974. Despite the authoritarian nature of the regime, NATO, and particularly the United States, supported it. The primary reason was to prevent Greece from falling under communist influence, especially given its strategic location in the Eastern Mediterranean during the Cold War. The junta’s alignment with the West, and its role as a member of NATO, was seen as important in the context of the broader geopolitical struggle.

          Turkey (1980s): Following a military coup in Turkey in 1980, NATO provided tacit support to the military government led by General Kenan Evren. Turkey was a key NATO ally at the time, strategically located between Europe and the Middle East, and a bulwark against Soviet expansion. Despite widespread human rights abuses by the military regime, NATO largely overlooked these actions because of Turkey’s importance in the alliance.

          Pakistan (1970s-1980s): During the Cold War, Pakistan, under military rulers like General Ayub Khan and General Zia-ul-Haq, was supported by NATO countries, particularly the United States. This was primarily because Pakistan was seen as a critical ally in the region, especially during the Soviet-Afghan War in the 1980s. Despite Pakistan’s authoritarian regime and the suppression of political freedoms, NATO and the U.S. supported the government for its role in countering Soviet influence in Afghanistan.

          Chile (1970s): While not a direct NATO member, the U.S. support for Augusto Pinochet’s military coup in Chile (1973) is an example of realpolitik in action. The U.S. feared the spread of communism in Latin America after Salvador Allende, a Marxist, became president. The U.S. provided covert support to Pinochet’s dictatorship, despite its brutal human rights violations, to prevent a left-wing government from gaining a foothold in the region.

          South Korea (1960s-1980s): South Korea, under military dictators such as Park Chung-hee and Chun Doo-hwan, was an important ally of NATO, especially during the Cold War. The authoritarian regimes in South Korea were tolerated and even supported by NATO countries, particularly the U.S., as part of the broader strategy of containing communist influence from the North. Despite political repression and human rights abuses, the regime’s alignment with the West made it a vital partner in the region.

          1. Iran (1953-1979)

            Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi: In the early years of the Cold War, the United States and NATO supported the authoritarian regime of the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. The Shah’s regime was seen as a critical ally in containing Soviet influence in the region. In 1953, the CIA orchestrated Operation Ajax, a coup that overthrew the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh after he nationalized Iran’s oil industry. The U.S. and NATO supported the Shah’s rule despite his increasingly repressive policies, including the suppression of political dissent through the SAVAK (Iranian secret police). The Shah’s regime was valuable to NATO due to Iran’s strategic position in the Middle East and its oil resources. It wasn’t until the Iranian Revolution of 1979 that the U.S. and NATO ceased supporting the regime, after which Iran turned to an Islamic theocracy under Ayatollah Khomeini.

          2. Egypt (1970s-1980s)

            Hosni Mubarak: After the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981, Hosni Mubarak took power in Egypt, ruling as a military dictator until 2011. Egypt, under Mubarak, was a close ally of the U.S. and NATO, especially due to its peace treaty with Israel (Camp David Accords) and its strategic location in the Middle East. Despite widespread human rights abuses, including suppression of opposition parties, freedom of speech, and arrests of activists, Mubarak’s regime was tolerated by the West, as it served as a counterbalance to the influence of radical Islamist movements and a key partner in Middle Eastern peacekeeping efforts.

          3. Indonesia (1965-1998)

            Suharto’s Regime: In 1965, General Suharto seized power in Indonesia following an attempted coup and a violent anti-communist purge. While Suharto ruled with an iron fist, suppressing political opposition, committing human rights abuses, and maintaining a highly authoritarian regime, NATO members, particularly the U.S., supported him throughout the Cold War. Suharto’s regime was considered an important ally in Southeast Asia in the struggle against communism. U.S. support was partly driven by Indonesia’s strategic location and its large population, as well as the desire to prevent the spread of communism in the region. Suharto’s regime also cooperated with the West in terms of economic and military ties. NATO turned a blind eye to the brutal 1975 invasion of East Timor by Indonesia, during which large numbers of civilians were killed.

          4. El Salvador (1980s)

            Military Junta and the Civil War: During the Salvadoran Civil War (1979-1992), the U.S. and NATO provided significant military and financial support to the right-wing government and its military junta, which was engaged in a brutal conflict against left-wing insurgents. The Salvadoran government was widely criticized for its human rights abuses, including extrajudicial killings, torture, and the targeting of civilians. The U.S. supported this regime under the rationale of fighting communist insurgency, as El Salvador was seen as part of the broader ideological battle against Soviet-backed leftist movements in Latin America. The U.S. sent billions in military aid to the Salvadoran government despite the regime’s authoritarian nature and widespread atrocities.

          5. Nicaragua (1980s)

            Anastasio Somoza Family Dictatorship: The Somoza family ruled Nicaragua with an iron fist for several decades. While the Somoza regime was not directly tied to NATO, it was supported by the U.S. as part of its broader strategy to prevent the spread of communism in Central America. The Somoza regime was notorious for its corruption, human rights violations, and heavy-handed repression of political opposition. The United States provided military aid to the Somoza dictatorship, even as it became more despotic and brutal. When the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN), a Marxist revolutionary group, came to power in 1979, the U.S. viewed it as a direct threat to its interests in the region. This led to U.S. support for the Contra rebels in the 1980s, who fought against the Sandinista government, even though the Contras were notorious for committing atrocities.

          6. Zaire (1965-1997)

            Mobutu Sese Seko: Mobutu came to power in Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of Congo) after a coup in 1965. His regime was one of the most corrupt and repressive in Africa, marked by widespread human rights abuses, political repression, and the accumulation of personal wealth. Despite this, the U.S. and NATO countries supported Mobutu for much of his rule. The rationale was largely geopolitical: Mobutu was seen as a bulwark against communist influence in Central Africa, especially in light of the Cold War competition. His regime was considered a stabilizing force in the region, and the U.S. provided military and economic assistance to Mobutu, despite the fact that his rule was marked by severe authoritarianism and personal enrichment.

          7. Saudi Arabia (1970s-Present)

            Saudi Monarchy: Although not a direct NATO member, Saudi Arabia has enjoyed strong support from NATO members, particularly the U.S. The Saudi royal family’s regime is highly authoritarian, with limited political freedoms, widespread censorship, and suppression of dissent. However, the kingdom has been a crucial partner for NATO in the Middle East due to its vast oil reserves, strategic location, and role in the global economy. Despite its human rights record, including the oppression of women and political dissidents, Saudi Arabia has remained a key ally, especially in the context of regional stability and countering the influence of Iran.

          8. The Philippines (1965-1986)

            Ferdinand Marcos: The Philippines, under Ferdinand Marcos, was another example of U.S. support for a dictatorial regime. Marcos declared martial law in 1972 and ruled as a dictator until his ouster in 1986. The U.S. supported Marcos’ regime because of its strategic importance during the Cold War, particularly as a counter to communist movements in Southeast Asia. Despite corruption, political repression, and widespread human rights violations under Marcos, the U.S. maintained close ties with the Philippines, providing military and economic assistance in exchange for the use of key military bases in the country.

    • KarfiolosHus@discuss.tchncs.de
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      3 hours ago

      This is what Kreml wants, to piss them of so much, that they start to kick their members out and destabilise or make them untrustworthy partners

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        Hungary once used to be much greater in area, involving Slovakia, Croatia, and even some parts of today’s Ukraine. Orbán did say Hungary no longer have no territorial requests towards Ukraine after Euromaidan.

  • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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    1 day ago

    I’m generally not for forcing people to pick sides but in this case I don’t think you can have both. It’s it’s either European values or not. If the answer is not then please leave.

    • Letstakealook@lemm.ee
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      19 hours ago

      Europe is pretty divided around the warrant for netanyahu, so I’m not sure how they are not displaying “European values.”

      • FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world
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        43 minutes ago

        He’s an EU obstructionist. Our representatives spend more time trying to function because of him.

        I don’t know if it’s better to have Hungary in our out, strategically, but they’re not a normal member or a friendly one.

      • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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        19 hours ago

        Hungary has opposed sanctions to Russia as well as Sweden’s and Finland’s NATO membership along many other things the rest of the EU has more or less been in agreement. Withdrawing from ICC is just their latest shenanigans.

        • Letstakealook@lemm.ee
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          18 hours ago

          The topic at hand was the ICC. At least in this case, they are being the most honest about it. They aren’t going to follow the guidelines, so they are withdrawing. That’s a better position than France, who will remain signatory but not arrest netanyahu.

              • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk
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                31 minutes ago

                But my comment wasn’t about Netanyahu - it was about Hungary being the odd one out in several cases now, and their withdrawal from the ICC is just the latest example of them seemingly holding different values than the rest of the EU. Whether or not the entire EU agrees on what to do about Benjamin is irrelevant here - the ICC has issued an arrest warrant, and for an ICC member state to refuse to comply is effectively a refusal to respect international law. Who the warrant is for isn’t the point; the principle is.

              • Letstakealook@lemm.ee
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                1 hour ago

                They’re either being intentially obtuse or sometimes struggle to remember how to breathe. Regardless, it’s clear they have nothing of value to add to any discussion.