You are missing the point. The press is allowed to be biased. They are allowed to say false things. They are allowed to report stories that go against what the current politically correct ideology is.
The government should never intimidate the press when they report politically incorrect ideas and thoughts.
@BalpeenHammer@Dave , not intimidate but without checks and balances it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
We generally do want a press we can trust and not one that spreads falsehoods/lies.
The difference is that murder is and should be illegal. Biased reporting is not and should not be illegal.
Think about it this way.
Trump is Putin’s butt boy so eventually both Luxon and Seymour are going to make a U turn on Russia. When that happens do you want reporters that write sympathetic headlines towards Ukraine investigated by the secret police?
As for genocide well in the last few weeks Israel has bombed a christian hospital killing doctors, nurses, patients etc, bombed tents at a refugee camp killing dozens of children shut off all food and medical supplies into gaza, bombed Lebanon and Syria, killed and kidnapped palestinians in the west bank, targeted journalists, bombed a UN facility and generally continued their genodical campaign.
How many headlines have you read in the press? How many times has any of this been mentioned on TV or radio?
The press here is pro genocide and that’s because the owners of the press are oligarchs who are also pro genocide.
Alas the secret police isn’t investigating any reporters or editors over this issue.
@BalpeenHammer , as for genocide headlines… so many it’s heart breaking - I generally get news from sources that are balanced and factual - in part because disinformation, lies and falsehoods can be precursors to a lot of inhumane behaviour, including murder and imho have no place in good reporting.
Editor makes pro-russia edits over a period of time
RNZ catches editor doing this, starts reverting edits with notice to readers
Editor in question resigns
GCSB investigates whether this was a Russian spy
outcome was that it wasn’t
I don’t see how anyone went outside their remit. RNZ wasn’t forced to do anything. The editor had already resigned, there’s no intimidation. GCSB seems to be doing what they are there for I’m regards to foreign interference.
I do not believe as you’re implying that freedom of the press involves not investigating foreign states manipulating that press to change the public opinion. Rather I think the press in question would welcome the outcome of this investigation (whatever the outcome). There is no implication here that anyone is forcing RNZ to do anything, only RNZ controlling one of their editors. Surely freedom of the press involves freedom of RNZ to control their editor?
Do you think there are any editors are RNZ or other press outlets who make pro US, pro Israel, pro EU or pro UK edits
Do you think the GCSB investigated anybody for being pro any of those countries?
I do not believe as you’re implying that freedom of the press involves not investigating foreign states manipulating that press to change the public opinion.
I disagree. Freedom of the press involves exactly that. In fact the most of the press in our country is owned by foreigners and you can bet your ass those countries are manipulating the press in order to change public opinion. The only difference is that you align with the politically correct ideology those countries push. This only worries you if the foreign nation is Russia or China or Iran or whoever the current government has convinced you are you enemies.
Do you think there are any editors are RNZ or other press outlets who make pro US, pro Israel, pro EU or pro UK edits
For sure.
Do you think the GCSB investigated anybody for being pro any of those countries?
I would not be surprised at all. The GCSB is presumably investigating various people all day every day as the core part of their job.
I disagree. Freedom of the press involves exactly that. In fact the most of the press in our country is owned by foreigners and you can bet your ass those countries are manipulating the press in order to change public opinion.
I’m really struggling with your argument. You are saying that the foreign owned press is manipulating the public through media and that in your opinion we should not do anything about that?
I would not be surprised at all. The GCSB is presumably investigating various people all day every day as the core part of their job.
This is so dishonest. You know this isn’t happening. If you actually believe that GCSB is investigating reporters and editors for publishing pro US or pro Israel content I have lost all respect for you.
I’m really struggling with your argument.
I thought I was very clear. The press should remain free. It should not be pressured by the government whatsoever. Reporters should not live in fear that they are going to be investigated by the secret police for publishing articles.
You are saying that the foreign owned press is manipulating the public through media and that in your opinion we should not do anything about that?
Yes exactly. The government should not be messing with the press.
This is different from your position which is that the we should only do something about this when it involves publishing articles which are politically incorrect and against government policies and positions.
The press should have the freedom to edit any way it pleases and to push any ideology it wants. That’s what the free press is all about. Why should Murdoch and the other oligarchs be the only ones pushing their agenda?
Yes, but in this case it wasn’t the media editing it, just one mad lad.
The collective that is the media organization RNZ re-edited the articles back to what they were originally published as. If old mate was so commited to his ideals then he is more than free to make his own blog site or join Reality Check Radio to post his articles.
Just because he is a journalist doesn’t give him the right to surreptitiously edit other journalists articles to change their alignment. This wasn’t a beat down, or a shake up, or a browbeating.
Dude did things that most people would align with a foreign state actor and was investigated for it. Was found not guilty and sent on his way. Im not saying it wasnt scary or intimidating, If i was him id be kacking my dacks. BUT i belive it was the correct course of action.
Part of the investigation, im speculating here, was probably checking that this was his view point and that he wasnt doing this under duress. While it may not feel like it, the invistigation was possibly for his benefit and to help him if he was being forced to do this. Now in this instance it wasn’t the case.
Just because he is a journalist doesn’t give him the right to surreptitiously edit other journalists articles to change their alignment. This wasn’t a beat down, or a shake up, or a browbeating.
He was the editor. It was literally his job to do that.
Dude did things that most people would align with a foreign state actor and was investigated for it.
This is what we should be screaming against. Being investigated for expressing politically incorrect ideas goes against every value we have as a democracy.
Im not saying it wasnt scary or intimidating, If i was him id be kacking my dacks. BUT i belive it was the correct course of action.
It doesn’t surprise me that you believe it was the correct course of action but it does scare and alarm me. It’s insane how easily a country can be persuaded to ditch press freedom.
Part of the investigation, im speculating here, was probably checking that this was his view point and that he wasnt doing this under duress. While it may not feel like it, the invistigation was possibly for his benefit and to help him if he was being forced to do this. Now in this instance it wasn’t the case.
No that was not a part of the investigation. The investigation was to put the scare of god into him any other member of the press who wants to express support for ideas or countries the government deems unacceptable.
You are missing the point. The press is allowed to be biased. They are allowed to say false things. They are allowed to report stories that go against what the current politically correct ideology is.
The government should never intimidate the press when they report politically incorrect ideas and thoughts.
@BalpeenHammer @Dave , not intimidate but without checks and balances it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
We generally do want a press we can trust and not one that spreads falsehoods/lies.
We want a press that’s free. Every press outlet has published falsehoods and lies. That’s their right.
@BalpeenHammer , and we want people to be free, that doesn’t mean we want them to murder each other, or commit genocide for that matter !
The difference is that murder is and should be illegal. Biased reporting is not and should not be illegal.
Think about it this way.
Trump is Putin’s butt boy so eventually both Luxon and Seymour are going to make a U turn on Russia. When that happens do you want reporters that write sympathetic headlines towards Ukraine investigated by the secret police?
As for genocide well in the last few weeks Israel has bombed a christian hospital killing doctors, nurses, patients etc, bombed tents at a refugee camp killing dozens of children shut off all food and medical supplies into gaza, bombed Lebanon and Syria, killed and kidnapped palestinians in the west bank, targeted journalists, bombed a UN facility and generally continued their genodical campaign.
How many headlines have you read in the press? How many times has any of this been mentioned on TV or radio?
The press here is pro genocide and that’s because the owners of the press are oligarchs who are also pro genocide.
Alas the secret police isn’t investigating any reporters or editors over this issue.
@BalpeenHammer , as for genocide headlines… so many it’s heart breaking - I generally get news from sources that are balanced and factual - in part because disinformation, lies and falsehoods can be precursors to a lot of inhumane behaviour, including murder and imho have no place in good reporting.
@BalpeenHammer , yeah well, no wonder then that people don’t want to pay for it !
Isn’t the chain of events:
I don’t see how anyone went outside their remit. RNZ wasn’t forced to do anything. The editor had already resigned, there’s no intimidation. GCSB seems to be doing what they are there for I’m regards to foreign interference.
I do not believe as you’re implying that freedom of the press involves not investigating foreign states manipulating that press to change the public opinion. Rather I think the press in question would welcome the outcome of this investigation (whatever the outcome). There is no implication here that anyone is forcing RNZ to do anything, only RNZ controlling one of their editors. Surely freedom of the press involves freedom of RNZ to control their editor?
Two things.
I disagree. Freedom of the press involves exactly that. In fact the most of the press in our country is owned by foreigners and you can bet your ass those countries are manipulating the press in order to change public opinion. The only difference is that you align with the politically correct ideology those countries push. This only worries you if the foreign nation is Russia or China or Iran or whoever the current government has convinced you are you enemies.
For sure.
I would not be surprised at all. The GCSB is presumably investigating various people all day every day as the core part of their job.
I’m really struggling with your argument. You are saying that the foreign owned press is manipulating the public through media and that in your opinion we should not do anything about that?
Also of note is the fact that this is RNZ. By design, the least foreign owned news outlet in this country.
Sure but not that relevant.
The point is that the secret police is intimidating journalists in order to prevent them from publishing politically incorrect articles and headlines.
This is so dishonest. You know this isn’t happening. If you actually believe that GCSB is investigating reporters and editors for publishing pro US or pro Israel content I have lost all respect for you.
I thought I was very clear. The press should remain free. It should not be pressured by the government whatsoever. Reporters should not live in fear that they are going to be investigated by the secret police for publishing articles.
Yes exactly. The government should not be messing with the press.
This is different from your position which is that the we should only do something about this when it involves publishing articles which are politically incorrect and against government policies and positions.
One more thing.
This investigation is a signal sent to the press to induce a chilling effect on reporting which goes against the current government narrative.
No reporter wants to be invested by the secret police (which GCSB is by any definition)
Probably can be investigated if it is the state sponsored news channel.
Definitely should be investigated if the edits are deliberately trying to be as under handed as these were.
The press should have the freedom to edit any way it pleases and to push any ideology it wants. That’s what the free press is all about. Why should Murdoch and the other oligarchs be the only ones pushing their agenda?
Yes, but in this case it wasn’t the media editing it, just one mad lad.
The collective that is the media organization RNZ re-edited the articles back to what they were originally published as. If old mate was so commited to his ideals then he is more than free to make his own blog site or join Reality Check Radio to post his articles.
Just because he is a journalist doesn’t give him the right to surreptitiously edit other journalists articles to change their alignment. This wasn’t a beat down, or a shake up, or a browbeating.
Dude did things that most people would align with a foreign state actor and was investigated for it. Was found not guilty and sent on his way. Im not saying it wasnt scary or intimidating, If i was him id be kacking my dacks. BUT i belive it was the correct course of action.
Part of the investigation, im speculating here, was probably checking that this was his view point and that he wasnt doing this under duress. While it may not feel like it, the invistigation was possibly for his benefit and to help him if he was being forced to do this. Now in this instance it wasn’t the case.
He was the editor. It was literally his job to do that.
This is what we should be screaming against. Being investigated for expressing politically incorrect ideas goes against every value we have as a democracy.
It doesn’t surprise me that you believe it was the correct course of action but it does scare and alarm me. It’s insane how easily a country can be persuaded to ditch press freedom.
No that was not a part of the investigation. The investigation was to put the scare of god into him any other member of the press who wants to express support for ideas or countries the government deems unacceptable.