Hi all, thank you for reading my post. modlod link
Clocks got banned first after suggesting that the OP try to be a genuine friend and try to find some common cause in real life rather than alienating people over abstract geopolitical factionalism:
I raised the issue that censoring earnest advice as ‘tankie apologia’ and preemtively writing off any common cause/ isolating people is no way to win people over either as friends or comrades.
I then got banned for this one, for continuing to find ‘the tankie triad’ extremely silly:
yeah that’s the context, I was just laughing because:
- only Lemmy users with an axe to grind call them that
- it sounds really silly, like they’re a nemesis to dr venture.
- I’m supposed to be the melodramatic one yet every day I get one-upped 😔
screenshot:
I’m not here to tell them how to run their comm, my position is that this is way more draconian than anything I’ve run into in any of ‘the tankie triad’. The same groups of people loudly complaining about censorship on ‘tankie’ run instances don’t seem to have a problem enforcing vague/arbitrary vibes based censorship in their spaces.
For anyone wondering why we have such strict rules regarding tankies in our community, it’s because they have a tendency to try to worm their way into leftist spaces. Tankies constantly try to convince everyone that they are leftists and that being opposed to working with them is “leftist infighting”, yet they will defend nation states which oppress unions, commit genocides, or do straight up imperialism. All the same things that capitalist nations do. They either embrace these things or deny they happened, or explain that they were somehow necessary. Some are earnest in how they try to convince others, and some know their stances are not popular and try to be subtle.
Tankies are not leftists, and disagreeing with them is not arbitrary. Based on this we have decided to not platform them on 196. This is mentioned in the sidebar and anyone who does not like this is free to go elsewhere. Additionally, we usually give a warning if the infringing comments are not too bad. Both instances posted about here were instances where they were warned yet continued with their behavior.
Edit: We also don’t mind tankies being active on 196, we only mind them defending tankies or proselytizing.
If Marxists are not leftist, I do not know who is.
I described authoritarians. Socialists, communists, and anarchists are not tankies unless they defend authoritarian regimes.
Well, they have dominated Marxist politics for quite a while, and I am not sure you can say they are not leftists because they are authoritarian, they have a lot more in common ideologically with other Marxists/socialists than the right, just because they prefer certain methods does not mean they are not leftists, and they do have traits that have always been associated with leftism, like opposition to tradition, monarchy, even capitalism, desire for revolution, etc.
but diva didn’t do that
YDI you went to a thread with a specific anti-tankie topic in a comm that is explicitly no tankies
The definition of ‘tankie’ is pretty clearly arbitrary and vibes based. I’m an anarchist, I’ve organized with anarchists for years. Sorry if I don’t pass some terminally online litmus test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereo
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/tankie
(politics, slang, derogatory, by extension) A supporter of policies and actions by the Soviet Union, China, Cuba or other authoritarian socialist (chiefly Marxist-Leninist) governments.
I support the positive changes for society that happen regardless of the government, however ultimately all of them are still going to be representing a hierarchy to be dismantled at the end of the day.
I have a long litany of criticism for all of the countries listed, but this is is not an appropriate place to get into that. Generally any nuance gets lost from the conversation as soon as some online demagogue declares that it’s either total ideological conformity or you’re a tankie.
Not to get condescending, I try to avoid being dogmatic myself, but it’s a comfortable impulse. Actual human interaction requires curiosity, tolerance and not treating broad groups of people like a monolith. Like you can discard legitimate advice because you don’t like the messengers, but in the end it’s you who is worse off for it.
I do not think I have seen you once criticize China or Russia, because if you had you would be more in line with me than you think.
Every government has done things worthy of praise and condemnation. To me an anarchist, at the very least, would be shitting on all the governments from the US to the CCP to the DPRK and everywhere in between
But I don’t see that from you or any other known tankie who also claims to be an anarchist. You have a pretty clear pattern of criticizing the West and then covering for what should be criticized of the CCP/Russia/NK etc.
Maybe this comes because I prefer local political organizing, but I live in the US right now, my current government is the one I have the biggest issues with, and thus I voice them online because it’s relevant to me. The current government in Russia sucks ass, what do you want me to say? if I was living there I’d probably be getting persecuted for being trans. It actually sucks because even apart from this war it makes it almost impossible for me to visit family.
I actually have some optimism for china it’s true, but like many places there’s issues, I’m not in favor of territorial land grabs in general, no matter the US provocation. They can also be very conservative but it’s also hard for me to judge honestly from the other side of the planet and not speaking the language. I have seen enough trans people in china talking about their experience to say that it’s possible to live a life there as a trans person- it just takes having a supportive family. Unless you want to end up homeless that’s also generally the case in the US. I don’t like seeing forced labor, but the american alternative next door was two decades of occupying afghanistan. I disapprove of prisons that turn prisoners into slave labor, but if the alternative is decades of widespread counter-insurgency and indiscriminate bombings I think I’m also capable of pointing to the lesser evil.
YDI.
Lemmy.blahaj.zone specifically is for trans folks. You’re not going to make friends there defending authoritarianism, and it’s part of their actual rules.
They also ban based on what your account does outside of their instance, and more than just this specific instance has you defending tankies (and it looks like, on cursory glance, you identify as one) so that would lead to a banning.
Don’t worry though, there are a lot of folks banned from there who are sour about it who’ll be along shortly to say PTB.
Lemmy.blahaj.zone specifically is for trans folks.
yes I know, I’m trans.
it looks like, on cursory glance, you identify as one
I’m an anarchist, I organize with anarchists, have done so for years. This level of dogmatism as ‘anti-authoritarianism’ I have only run into in a handful of online spaces.
It was mostly for your comment defending the other poster, and for the axe grinding comment. That combined with your stance that ukraine should not defend itself against russian aggression in your comment history made your comments read as you defending tankies.
You were also warned prior to the ban yet continued to make comments in the same vein as before.
I’m opposed to all inter-capitalist wars. Sounds like the real issue is that I have a nuanced take on Ukraine in my post history more so than any of the things I said in the thread.
The advice on offer in that thread reeks of terminally online in a way that is extremely unlikely to accomplish anything productive in real life other than isolating yourself into increasingly small cliques.
Maybe you should add “no dissent allowed” to the rules so it’s more clear that it’s a cj comm
