Independent Persian has received messages from protestors within Iran via Starlink satellite that describe a ‘war-like situation’. Amirhossein Miresmaeili reports
No. I said IF it was their will I would still be against it because it would be contradictory, but YOU are the one claiming to know definitively what their will is and that therefore I am against it. I do not claim to know the minds of all Iranians like you do. The limited evidence I have access to is that the popular will is divided among several factions and understanding the factions at this distance is almost impossible given the direct and indirect foreign interference at all levels.
My statement is an assessment of the state of the game. IF it were the will of a super majority if Iranians to overthrow their government, THEN I would not support it because my assessment of the state of the game is that IF the government is overthrown THEN the USA will subvert the will of the Iranian people. It is structurally contradictory.
I think the Iranian people understand this. I hope they do. You clearly don’t
Why are you dismissing the will of millions of Iranians who don’t want regime change? Why are you such a chauvinist that you think you speak for all Iranians?
I mean I was talking about the same hypothetical as you were. You wouldn’t support the will of the people in a situation where it was to take down the theocracy and I would. I wouldn’t be speaking for anyone, just supporting their own will in that situation.
Stop trying to reduce to this personal ethic. “The Iranian people” are not a monolith. Some of them agree with this view of the world, others don’t. They will manage it themselves.
You gotta stop imagining that everything is about moral correctness. The reason it matters what Yanks think about what other people should do isn’t because it’s a moral question but a practical one - Yanks will take their personal beliefs and then put 250k tons of depleted uranium bombs behind it.
When I say I don’t support undermining Iranian national security, I am not saying that I would bomb civilians the way the US does when it says it doesn’t support something. I don’t think a foreign military should intervene to impose its view on the world.
But I for damn sure would engage in dialog and discourse about the topic and support my position with reasoning, history, and evidence.
Luckily I don’t have to because there are millions of Iranians already having that discussion with a much better grip on the situation than I have.
My role in this discourse here is to argue with Western liberals and disabuse them of their bullshit moral superiorty driven by the empire’s propaganda machine so they stop supporting the empire’s agenda.
No. I said IF it was their will I would still be against it because it would be contradictory, but YOU are the one claiming to know definitively what their will is and that therefore I am against it. I do not claim to know the minds of all Iranians like you do. The limited evidence I have access to is that the popular will is divided among several factions and understanding the factions at this distance is almost impossible given the direct and indirect foreign interference at all levels.
My statement is an assessment of the state of the game. IF it were the will of a super majority if Iranians to overthrow their government, THEN I would not support it because my assessment of the state of the game is that IF the government is overthrown THEN the USA will subvert the will of the Iranian people. It is structurally contradictory.
I think the Iranian people understand this. I hope they do. You clearly don’t
I don’t think there’s been any confusion about that. You wouldn’t and don’t support the people’s will.
Why are you dismissing the will of millions of Iranians who don’t want regime change? Why are you such a chauvinist that you think you speak for all Iranians?
I mean I was talking about the same hypothetical as you were. You wouldn’t support the will of the people in a situation where it was to take down the theocracy and I would. I wouldn’t be speaking for anyone, just supporting their own will in that situation.
Great, so in a hypothetical, you can feel morally superior to me. I’m OK with that.
It’s a position you yourself took, not sure why you are upset with me
Because you’re arguing a counterfactual to signal virtues instead of actually engaging in the analysis of the real world.
What if the Iranian people don’t agree with your view of the “real world” and what they should do, according to you?
Stop trying to reduce to this personal ethic. “The Iranian people” are not a monolith. Some of them agree with this view of the world, others don’t. They will manage it themselves.
You gotta stop imagining that everything is about moral correctness. The reason it matters what Yanks think about what other people should do isn’t because it’s a moral question but a practical one - Yanks will take their personal beliefs and then put 250k tons of depleted uranium bombs behind it.
When I say I don’t support undermining Iranian national security, I am not saying that I would bomb civilians the way the US does when it says it doesn’t support something. I don’t think a foreign military should intervene to impose its view on the world.
But I for damn sure would engage in dialog and discourse about the topic and support my position with reasoning, history, and evidence.
Luckily I don’t have to because there are millions of Iranians already having that discussion with a much better grip on the situation than I have.
My role in this discourse here is to argue with Western liberals and disabuse them of their bullshit moral superiorty driven by the empire’s propaganda machine so they stop supporting the empire’s agenda.