You seem to be operating under some notion that particular work deserves a particular amount of pay. That’s backwards. People pay for what they get, not for what the seller’s cost of goods.
We know that Larian is doing very well financially. Their devs are happy and well paid.
You seem to be operating under some notion that particular work deserves a particular amount of pay. That’s backwards. People pay for what they get, not for what the seller’s cost of goods.
You seem to be operating with no knowledge of how capitalism is supposed to work. In the long run competition amongst consumer options forces companies to drive prices down to ~ costs + a reasonable margin.
Where that doesn’t happen is in cases of monopolies, monopsonies, oligopolies, and generally in areas where there is a lack of competition.
Like in the case of Valve’s effective PC gaming monopoly and gamer’s dumbass insistence on defending it.
We know that Larian is doing very well financially. Their devs are happy and well paid.
So the fuck what? You think every developer is? You think Larian wouldn’t appreciate 30% of all of their sales money not going straight to Valve for doing jack shit?
I haven’t studied “capitalism” but my Masters degree is in Financial Engineering. Since you seem to care about formal economics, how do you propose solving Akelof’s Market for Lemons?
Valve solves the information asymmetry. That’s a net gain for both buyers and sellers. But you’ve studied economics, so you probably know that already.
So let’s skip to the meat of the question. How do you propose determining the intrinsic value of resolved information asymmetry.
Are you actually confused about the information asymmetry in video game purchases? Given your weird movie references I assumed you were just trying to change the topic.
I’ll try to use small words. Before you play a game, you don’t know if it’s goo;, just as used car buyers don’t know if the used car is a lemon. Without a buyer protections that drags the price of good games down just as lemons drag down the price of used cars. Akerlof goes into the proof for the car part of this in his paper.
“Lemon laws” mostly solve that problem for cars. Steam mostly solves that problem for video games. That requires trust. You may not trust Steam but millions of people do. They’ve repeatedly made decisions that benefit gamers so gamers flock to them. Thats why they buy so many games from Steam even when they’re available elsewhere. If they broke that trust they’d probably never get it back but, until then, their net effect is to increase revenue for studios by providing a market where people are comfortable enough to spend more money.
I have no idea how many devs worked on BG3 and that number has 0 impact on my enjoyment of the game. Given the number of hours I spent playing BG3, the price made it one of the cheapest forms of entertainment available.
And, as a developer, I really don’t care how much companies pay to marketing vendors. Developer pay is generally negotiated when you’re hired. I haven’t worked in B2C but, as I understand it, they usually pay bonuses on sales volume rather than profits.
You seem to have completely missed the point that Valve does not deserve 1/3 of all gaming revenue for running an automated digital store.
And, as a developer, I really don’t care how much companies pay to marketing vendors. Developer pay is generally negotiated when you’re hired. I haven’t worked in B2C but, as I understand it, they usually pay bonuses on sales volume rather than profits.
Honestly what are you even trying to say here? That because you write B2B software on a salaried basis, that that means that an indie game dev doesn’t care whether or not Valve takes 30% of all of their revenue?
Like no shit sherlock, thats a matter of you being a salaried employee. If you owned your own company you would very much care about a middle man taking 30% off the top.
You’re just going to link to an unrelated article?
Literally all that says is that the Larian Publishing Lead doesn’t like Epic buying exclusive game rights. It says literally nothing about their thoughts on Steam’s 30% of revenue fee.
Because it’s enriching millionaires and billionaires for not doing shit, at the expense of gamers who are overpaying, and/or game developers who are losing out on revenue they can use to pay the people actually making games.
Every single indie dev who spent 5 years of their life crafting a game, suddenly has to give 30% of all of their revenue to Valve for maintaining a largely automated storefront. That’s fucked.
And it extra pisses me off because gamers act like billionaire-Gabe is a saint, and billionaire-Sweeney is the devil, when Gabe has ripped everyone off for decades, and Tim Sweeney just paid developers for exclusive game rights to try and launch a competitor store. Like omg so evil of them to offer to pay for development of a game in a situation where the developer has zero obligation or pressure to take the deal. What monsters.
Tim Sweeney has also risked a significant chunk of Epic’s Fortnite fortune on lawsuits that have fundamentally changed and broken the app store monopolies, and he’s spent much of his personal fortune on buying up land for nature conservation.
The idea that Gabe and Valve are saints and Tim and Epic are the devil is fucking dumb.
No, it’s a fucking monopoly 30% extortion fee.
Like honestly, have you ever even seriously contemplated running a business in your life?
What do you think you pay 30% of REVENUE for? Go ahead and list of out expenses for any normal business that chew up 30% of revenue.
We’ll wait to see how comparable they are to the glory that is Steam’s two decade old launcher and blob storage account.
You seem to be operating under some notion that particular work deserves a particular amount of pay. That’s backwards. People pay for what they get, not for what the seller’s cost of goods.
We know that Larian is doing very well financially. Their devs are happy and well paid.
You seem to be operating with no knowledge of how capitalism is supposed to work. In the long run competition amongst consumer options forces companies to drive prices down to ~ costs + a reasonable margin.
Where that doesn’t happen is in cases of monopolies, monopsonies, oligopolies, and generally in areas where there is a lack of competition.
Like in the case of Valve’s effective PC gaming monopoly and gamer’s dumbass insistence on defending it.
So the fuck what? You think every developer is? You think Larian wouldn’t appreciate 30% of all of their sales money not going straight to Valve for doing jack shit?
I haven’t studied “capitalism” but my Masters degree is in Financial Engineering. Since you seem to care about formal economics, how do you propose solving Akelof’s Market for Lemons?
Valve solves the information asymmetry. That’s a net gain for both buyers and sellers. But you’ve studied economics, so you probably know that already.
So let’s skip to the meat of the question. How do you propose determining the intrinsic value of resolved information asymmetry.
Lmfao, you’re literally trying to pull a Goodwill Hunting? Bruh we’ve seen this movie 😂
How about you explain precisely what information is asymmetric and what they’re solving by demanding an exorbitant 30% fee?
You’re the one claiming to be the economics expert. I’m simply correcting the record.
Lmfao, this is the fastest I’ve ever seen an attempted Goodwill Hunting fall on its face.
You have literally no idea what you even asked.
Are you actually confused about the information asymmetry in video game purchases? Given your weird movie references I assumed you were just trying to change the topic.
I’ll try to use small words. Before you play a game, you don’t know if it’s goo;, just as used car buyers don’t know if the used car is a lemon. Without a buyer protections that drags the price of good games down just as lemons drag down the price of used cars. Akerlof goes into the proof for the car part of this in his paper.
“Lemon laws” mostly solve that problem for cars. Steam mostly solves that problem for video games. That requires trust. You may not trust Steam but millions of people do. They’ve repeatedly made decisions that benefit gamers so gamers flock to them. Thats why they buy so many games from Steam even when they’re available elsewhere. If they broke that trust they’d probably never get it back but, until then, their net effect is to increase revenue for studios by providing a market where people are comfortable enough to spend more money.
Lmfao, here’s smaller words big brain:
Steam has reviews and accepts returns.
👏 Congratulations.
Amazing.
How unique.
Now answer how their 30% fee of every single game’s revenue is justified based on their costs to prove that they’re not abusing their monopoly.
Oh, what is that? Every competitive app storefront everywhere, charging far less then that?
Congratulations on defending a billionaire’s monopoly.
What exactly is the problem with the launcher? It works fine.
How many people did it take to make Baldur’s Gate?
Do you think it took Valve 30% of that number to maintain steam during that time?
That’s a completely irrelevant number.
I have no idea how many devs worked on BG3 and that number has 0 impact on my enjoyment of the game. Given the number of hours I spent playing BG3, the price made it one of the cheapest forms of entertainment available.
And, as a developer, I really don’t care how much companies pay to marketing vendors. Developer pay is generally negotiated when you’re hired. I haven’t worked in B2C but, as I understand it, they usually pay bonuses on sales volume rather than profits.
Whoosh.
You seem to have completely missed the point that Valve does not deserve 1/3 of all gaming revenue for running an automated digital store.
Honestly what are you even trying to say here? That because you write B2B software on a salaried basis, that that means that an indie game dev doesn’t care whether or not Valve takes 30% of all of their revenue?
Like no shit sherlock, thats a matter of you being a salaried employee. If you owned your own company you would very much care about a middle man taking 30% off the top.
So you don’t care that Larian isn’t harmed, you don’t care that the dev’s aren’t harmed, you don’t care that the consumer isn’t harmed.
You just feel bad for Epic?
What are you talking about? Larian loses 30% of every single dollar spent on their game.
Of course that harms them.
Do you think Larian’s management is also stupid?
Any halfway decent GTM executive would have checked their distribution channel options and chosen the mix that makes them the most money, net of fees.
Why would they pay for a service that harms them?
Because it’s the only one. That’s how a monopoly works.
If Larian has no problem, why do you?
Also https://www.pcgamer.com/software/platforms/in-response-to-epic-ceo-tim-sweeney-waging-war-on-steam-larians-publishing-lead-says-giving-everyone-everything-for-free-might-bump-numbers-but-doesnt-create-a-viable-storefront/
So you’re not going to answer the question?
You’re just going to link to an unrelated article?
Literally all that says is that the Larian Publishing Lead doesn’t like Epic buying exclusive game rights. It says literally nothing about their thoughts on Steam’s 30% of revenue fee.
Like seriously what do you care? Why does it matter to you how much cut Steam or Epic take?
Personally I just don’t give a shit. I am supporting Linux gaming development, that’s all I care about.
Because it’s enriching millionaires and billionaires for not doing shit, at the expense of gamers who are overpaying, and/or game developers who are losing out on revenue they can use to pay the people actually making games.
Every single indie dev who spent 5 years of their life crafting a game, suddenly has to give 30% of all of their revenue to Valve for maintaining a largely automated storefront. That’s fucked.
And it extra pisses me off because gamers act like billionaire-Gabe is a saint, and billionaire-Sweeney is the devil, when Gabe has ripped everyone off for decades, and Tim Sweeney just paid developers for exclusive game rights to try and launch a competitor store. Like omg so evil of them to offer to pay for development of a game in a situation where the developer has zero obligation or pressure to take the deal. What monsters.
Tim Sweeney has also risked a significant chunk of Epic’s Fortnite fortune on lawsuits that have fundamentally changed and broken the app store monopolies, and he’s spent much of his personal fortune on buying up land for nature conservation.
The idea that Gabe and Valve are saints and Tim and Epic are the devil is fucking dumb.
I’ll respect Tim more if he supports and contributes to Linux.
Linux Development Quickstart: Get started developing with Unreal Engine on Linux.