I love mobile tech. I’ve been using it for years, I’ve advocated for its use, recommended it to others, helped many set it up. And as much as I really HATE to say it, I was wrong.
To be fair- the problem isn’t the tech, the problem is the applications- social media ‘scrolling’ apps and short form video to be specific. But these days those apps are basically impossible to separate from phones and iPads.
And when the asshole algorithm based attention seekers (Meta, TikTok, Google, etc) came around, I and those like me had given them all a direct mainline IV into peoples eyeballs. We had good intentions- we never wanted mobile tech to become this. We never saw it coming. But we should have.
Unfortunately @Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world, at this point I think your answer is the only one we’ve got left. I’ve seen what passes for ‘kid friendly’ on an iPad- bright colors, happy music, think CocoMelon in an app. It pushes every dopamine button in a young brain. Or worse, short form videos- we let our kids spend 6 hours a day watching 30 second videos, and then wonder why they can’t focus in class for more than 45 seconds. Yeah there’s no porn, but it might as well be digital crack cocaine for the brain.
So yeah, at this point I think for our own good we need to roll this back like a failed update. Go back to dead-tree books and textbooks, or at the very least, downgrade to E-Ink or monochrome LCD so the screen is less engaging than the real world, not more.
Finally, and most importantly, we need to re-evaluate our relationship with boredom. Boredom sucks, but it also leads to inspiration and creativity. Scrolling apps essentially eliminate boredom, because however much time you have to kill, there’s always more content to fill it. And I think that’s a bad thing- we need a little boredom.
Same thing. Before my sister had kids i thoght it’s important that children learn their way around computers and while just giving them an ipad isn’t ideal, it certainly isn’t that bad.
But i thimk every sane person who has ever seen an ipad kid, ralises that they are truly cooked beyond repair. When my nephew was like 5, there was a christmas party abd there were 3 kids aged 3-6. I put my phone on the table and went to do something. There is nothing going on, except that it ahowed the time and maybe MAYBE a notification. These kids sat around my phone like the monkeys around the obelisk in 2001. I told them to not touch it and tried to explain that to them, it’s nothing but a watch, and they have seen a watch. It did not matter at all. Their eyes were widened by the shiny object and they could’t not touch it. I told them to keep their hands off, and they said they PROMISE not to touch it. And their hands immediately started to move on their own, slowly aproching that forbidden object. They did not care about christmas anymore or gifts or relatives, they juat sat there and waited for the time to change. Back then, they didn’t even know what is even on that thing, but they knew that grown ups are constantly glued to it.
The other thing that i witnessed once was in a store, it was pretty busy and there was this kid in the middle of an isle, maybe 6-8 years old. He was sitting in a shopping cart, playing fortnite. He did not care at all that he was in the way. He got bumped into several times by annoyed customers. He never looked up, even once. I was pretty annoyed too, but at the parents, i felt pretty bad for the guy. So i went to grab the cart and pushed him to the side. That kid never looked up, did not care that he juat got pushed around, did not care that i was a complete stranger.
Last but not least, my girlfriend’s daughter is now 8 years old. She’s addicted to reading, super intelligent child. She hardly ever used a phone, and doesn’t really watch tv. (Not because she doesn’t want to, it’s just a house rule.) Her grandmother is one of the biggest pieces of shits i have ever seen. I despise that lady with every fiber of my being. She tries so hard to break these children. She promised to gift that 8 year old a phone, multiple times. As a parent, you are then the asshole who have to explain your child that they absolutely do not get a phone. And that boomer cunt says shit like: oh it’s fine, she’ll get a new phone so she can have the old one. Then she can whatsapp people and use instagram and tiktok. Like what the fuck, are you crazy?
So long story short, she still things that 8 year old, higly intelligent kid needs a phone, and it’s getting on everyone’s nerves, so the compromise was that she got a “play phone” a real ass phone with nothing on. Not even a cgarge. It’s just a blank piece of glass and plastic to play with. Seeing her walking around with that thing and “taking selfies” and “using social media” is such a dystopian thing. Even that blank thing causes so much friction, it’s insane. It became her emotional support object, abd she sometimes gets in trouble because she doesn’t put it away on the table and shit. And it also got smashed to bits the first day she got it, because… Children and glass.
Tl;dr I’m now a phone bad boomer abd i’ll die on that hill
Consider the tech that was available in the 2000s and early 2010s. There was a lot of innovation, but if you wanted to make it work you had to figure it out. For example- okay you bought a computer, want Internet? You have to find and hire an ISP, make sure your computer has an Ethernet port (adding one if it doesn’t), and hook it up. Want to use two computers at once? You need a router, it’s on you to select, purchase, and configure this thing. Want to get email on your PalmPilot? You gotta figure out your POP3/IMAP and SMTP server settings. Computer not working? Better look up error codes or reinstall Windows.
The result was that ‘digital natives’ who truly understood general purpose computers not just on a superficial operator level but on a technician level.
Then we decided to make it simple. Want a computer? Plug it in, it Just Works. Want to get online? Go down to the Apple store and plunk down $400 you’ve got an iPad and you’re online.
Result is the ‘digital natives’ are just skilled operators, and haven’t the slightest clue what’s going on.
Now for what they know, they ARE good with it. I was once in a car with such a kid, and there was some strange scene playing out on the sidewalk with an obviously drunk guy. Kid videoed this on the iphone. I joked that when we get home we should get some music and make a meme video. Kid goes head down, 45 seconds later comes up and shows me it’s been edited into a publish-ready video with a title and background music. But ask that kid where to find a filesystem and you’d probably get an answer like ‘in the drawer under my teacher’s desk’.
My point is- I don’t think a kid should have an ipad, I think they should have an experience like early 2000s-2010s kids had. No plug and play devices. Instead things that if they want to make it work they have to figure it out themself.
Maybe the answer is some kind of raspberry pi based system but give it to them as a bag of parts and they have to assemble it themself into some kind of cyberdeck type setup, load an OS onto it (for this they get a blank laptop with an OS install stick, they have to install it themself to make it work enough to flash the Pi SD card).
Maybe if Linux phones start to be a thing, the answer becomes give the kid the phone but with the memory wiped so they have to image it themself in order to make it work…
Or just give the kid a flip phone (feature phone, not foldable smartphone)- it can text and communicate and call 911 and that’s all you NEED.
MIL sounds insufferable and toxic AF-- even if you are a batshit crazy Luddite (although the Luddites may not have been so crazy, but I digress…) Even if you are a nut, it’s still your fucking kid, not hers. And that means she has no right to make parenting decisions.
You ever read Fahrenheit 451? This reminds me of the guy’s wife Mildred, who’s obsessing over the stupid brain dead TV drama and she wants to replace all 4 walls of a room with TVs to watch the show in surround. And the highlight of her character’s experience is when she goes interactive and they’re asking her if their party should be in the pink room or the blue room. Meanwhile she can’t possibly understand why her husband doesn’t care about any of this.
Your MIL sounds like Mildred.
Screens. Its screens. Dont give them a device. Give them a book and have the teacher teach them how to read. Slow them down and remove distractions.
I love mobile tech. I’ve been using it for years, I’ve advocated for its use, recommended it to others, helped many set it up. And as much as I really HATE to say it, I was wrong.
To be fair- the problem isn’t the tech, the problem is the applications- social media ‘scrolling’ apps and short form video to be specific. But these days those apps are basically impossible to separate from phones and iPads.
And when the asshole algorithm based attention seekers (Meta, TikTok, Google, etc) came around, I and those like me had given them all a direct mainline IV into peoples eyeballs. We had good intentions- we never wanted mobile tech to become this. We never saw it coming. But we should have.
Unfortunately @Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world, at this point I think your answer is the only one we’ve got left. I’ve seen what passes for ‘kid friendly’ on an iPad- bright colors, happy music, think CocoMelon in an app. It pushes every dopamine button in a young brain. Or worse, short form videos- we let our kids spend 6 hours a day watching 30 second videos, and then wonder why they can’t focus in class for more than 45 seconds. Yeah there’s no porn, but it might as well be digital crack cocaine for the brain.
So yeah, at this point I think for our own good we need to roll this back like a failed update. Go back to dead-tree books and textbooks, or at the very least, downgrade to E-Ink or monochrome LCD so the screen is less engaging than the real world, not more.
Finally, and most importantly, we need to re-evaluate our relationship with boredom. Boredom sucks, but it also leads to inspiration and creativity. Scrolling apps essentially eliminate boredom, because however much time you have to kill, there’s always more content to fill it. And I think that’s a bad thing- we need a little boredom.
Same thing. Before my sister had kids i thoght it’s important that children learn their way around computers and while just giving them an ipad isn’t ideal, it certainly isn’t that bad.
But i thimk every sane person who has ever seen an ipad kid, ralises that they are truly cooked beyond repair. When my nephew was like 5, there was a christmas party abd there were 3 kids aged 3-6. I put my phone on the table and went to do something. There is nothing going on, except that it ahowed the time and maybe MAYBE a notification. These kids sat around my phone like the monkeys around the obelisk in 2001. I told them to not touch it and tried to explain that to them, it’s nothing but a watch, and they have seen a watch. It did not matter at all. Their eyes were widened by the shiny object and they could’t not touch it. I told them to keep their hands off, and they said they PROMISE not to touch it. And their hands immediately started to move on their own, slowly aproching that forbidden object. They did not care about christmas anymore or gifts or relatives, they juat sat there and waited for the time to change. Back then, they didn’t even know what is even on that thing, but they knew that grown ups are constantly glued to it.
The other thing that i witnessed once was in a store, it was pretty busy and there was this kid in the middle of an isle, maybe 6-8 years old. He was sitting in a shopping cart, playing fortnite. He did not care at all that he was in the way. He got bumped into several times by annoyed customers. He never looked up, even once. I was pretty annoyed too, but at the parents, i felt pretty bad for the guy. So i went to grab the cart and pushed him to the side. That kid never looked up, did not care that he juat got pushed around, did not care that i was a complete stranger.
Last but not least, my girlfriend’s daughter is now 8 years old. She’s addicted to reading, super intelligent child. She hardly ever used a phone, and doesn’t really watch tv. (Not because she doesn’t want to, it’s just a house rule.) Her grandmother is one of the biggest pieces of shits i have ever seen. I despise that lady with every fiber of my being. She tries so hard to break these children. She promised to gift that 8 year old a phone, multiple times. As a parent, you are then the asshole who have to explain your child that they absolutely do not get a phone. And that boomer cunt says shit like: oh it’s fine, she’ll get a new phone so she can have the old one. Then she can whatsapp people and use instagram and tiktok. Like what the fuck, are you crazy? So long story short, she still things that 8 year old, higly intelligent kid needs a phone, and it’s getting on everyone’s nerves, so the compromise was that she got a “play phone” a real ass phone with nothing on. Not even a cgarge. It’s just a blank piece of glass and plastic to play with. Seeing her walking around with that thing and “taking selfies” and “using social media” is such a dystopian thing. Even that blank thing causes so much friction, it’s insane. It became her emotional support object, abd she sometimes gets in trouble because she doesn’t put it away on the table and shit. And it also got smashed to bits the first day she got it, because… Children and glass.
Tl;dr I’m now a phone bad boomer abd i’ll die on that hill
Here’s the thing- kids should ‘know their way around computers’. But an iPad DOESN’T do that.
I think you might appreciate this blog post: Kids can’t use computers… and this is why it should worry you IMHO this is worth the time to read it.
Consider the tech that was available in the 2000s and early 2010s. There was a lot of innovation, but if you wanted to make it work you had to figure it out. For example- okay you bought a computer, want Internet? You have to find and hire an ISP, make sure your computer has an Ethernet port (adding one if it doesn’t), and hook it up. Want to use two computers at once? You need a router, it’s on you to select, purchase, and configure this thing. Want to get email on your PalmPilot? You gotta figure out your POP3/IMAP and SMTP server settings. Computer not working? Better look up error codes or reinstall Windows.
The result was that ‘digital natives’ who truly understood general purpose computers not just on a superficial operator level but on a technician level.
Then we decided to make it simple. Want a computer? Plug it in, it Just Works. Want to get online? Go down to the Apple store and plunk down $400 you’ve got an iPad and you’re online.
Result is the ‘digital natives’ are just skilled operators, and haven’t the slightest clue what’s going on.
Now for what they know, they ARE good with it. I was once in a car with such a kid, and there was some strange scene playing out on the sidewalk with an obviously drunk guy. Kid videoed this on the iphone. I joked that when we get home we should get some music and make a meme video. Kid goes head down, 45 seconds later comes up and shows me it’s been edited into a publish-ready video with a title and background music. But ask that kid where to find a filesystem and you’d probably get an answer like ‘in the drawer under my teacher’s desk’.
My point is- I don’t think a kid should have an ipad, I think they should have an experience like early 2000s-2010s kids had. No plug and play devices. Instead things that if they want to make it work they have to figure it out themself.
Maybe the answer is some kind of raspberry pi based system but give it to them as a bag of parts and they have to assemble it themself into some kind of cyberdeck type setup, load an OS onto it (for this they get a blank laptop with an OS install stick, they have to install it themself to make it work enough to flash the Pi SD card).
Maybe if Linux phones start to be a thing, the answer becomes give the kid the phone but with the memory wiped so they have to image it themself in order to make it work…
Or just give the kid a flip phone (feature phone, not foldable smartphone)- it can text and communicate and call 911 and that’s all you NEED.
MIL sounds insufferable and toxic AF-- even if you are a batshit crazy Luddite (although the Luddites may not have been so crazy, but I digress…) Even if you are a nut, it’s still your fucking kid, not hers. And that means she has no right to make parenting decisions.
You ever read Fahrenheit 451? This reminds me of the guy’s wife Mildred, who’s obsessing over the stupid brain dead TV drama and she wants to replace all 4 walls of a room with TVs to watch the show in surround. And the highlight of her character’s experience is when she goes interactive and they’re asking her if their party should be in the pink room or the blue room. Meanwhile she can’t possibly understand why her husband doesn’t care about any of this.
Your MIL sounds like Mildred.