• CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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    8 hours ago

    Fight what exactly? Determinism either is or isnt how the universe works, it isnt like some sort of external force of finite capacity that can be resisted by some application of effort. If it is true, then you have no choice but to act the way something like you would act, and the way humans are wired to think is in terms of choices and the possible outcomes of those choices, even if the choice you make and the thinking that leads you to it is inevitable. If it is not true, then the possibility of making different choices exists, but it doesnt look any different to you because you only get to perceive the result of following one set of them.

    The thing about determinism is that while it may be an interesting philosophical exercise, beyond being difficult to maybe impossible to prove or disprove, it isnt really relevant to much. A deterministic universe looks, feels, and acts to us exactly like a nondeterministic one would.

      • Signtist@lemm.ee
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        6 hours ago

        I never understood the fight against nihilism, as if it’s inherently bleak. I came to the conclusion that nothing truly matters a long time ago, but that doesn’t keep me from feeling like stuff matters, and doing what matters to me. Subjective meaning can still drive you to pursue and live a good life even while you’re aware that objective meaning doesn’t exit. Happiness feels good, which is enough for me.

          • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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            59 seconds ago

            If nothing matters, then it doesnt matter that nothing matters, so while I technically am a nihilist, since I dont see a plausible mechanism for how some kind of objective purpose/meaning could exist, I dont really think much of it. If nothing matters there is no reason for me not to care about whatever I arbitrarily happen to value anyway. Expecting the universe to find those things important too just feels kind of self-centered somehow.

    • i_love_FFT@jlai.lu
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      7 hours ago

      What if some parts of the universe are deterministic, and some others aren’t? Or that is is deterministic sometimes, but sometimes it is not?

      Then, would it mean that initiating a chain of deterministic events that eventually causes suffering makes me responsible for this suffering?

      What if i choose to cut taxes because i think I’ll have more money, but it causes a series of events that end up increasing organised crimes? What if it was always the deterministic result of that choice, but the choice itself was not deterministic and I could have chosen not to do it?

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        5 hours ago

        Oh it’s even worse.

        The universe is indeterministic. It’s probabilistic and uncertain, but that doesn’t mean you actually have a choice. Your “choices” are just determined by quantum dice rolls.

        Anything can happen, nothing is certain, but you still don’t actually exercise will over reality.

        • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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          2 hours ago

          That’s assuming that our current understanding of quantum mechanics is even close to accurate, just because we haven’t figured out how to predict the outcomes yet doesn’t mean it can’t be done

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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            2 hours ago

            That’s called Hidden Variable Theory, but there’s also no indication that this is how the universe works and everything we find just reinforces indeterminism and uncertainty.

            The most notable development is the math working out to make hidden variables irrelevant i.e. they do not actually help us better describe reality or predict outcomes of measurement.

            The math doesn’t seem to care whether God is rolling dice or not.

            • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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              40 minutes ago

              That’s one theory about how it might work, our inability to come up with another way to explain the possibility of quantum determinism is not evidence against it