New York is the de facto capital city of a literal slave empire who kidnaps people to foreign death camps so I’m thrilled to see what they’re reporting about China
You know it’s possible for multiple evils to exist, right? And sometimes they are also adversaries. Yes, the U.S. is evil. Yes, China is evil. Yes, Russia is evil. So in and so forth.
You know it’s possible for multiple evils to exist, right?
What would you say about a newspaper that spread salacious rumors about a foreign country’s nuclear weapons program, months before the newspaper’s domestic government launched a full scale military invasion? What about a newspaper notorious for promoting narratives that have contributed to homophobia, racism, and moral panics aimed at religious minorities? Or a newspaper that had damning information about domestic leadership and deliberately covered it up until the end of an election cycle? A newspaper that regularly promoted the interests of its corporate sponsors ahead of the well-being of its readership? One that promoted misinformation in the middle of a pandemic? Or one that shamelessly promoted financial con-men in the middle of their most brazen acts of fraud?
Is that evil?
Yes, the U.S. is evil. Yes, China is evil.
But we have to side with the US, because it is the lesser of two evils! So trust the NYT, uncritically. Again. In this new drum-beat towards war.
Because the article is arguing for further US sanctions on Chinese trade goods. If you’re telling your neighbors, at the point of a US gun, not to buy Chinese products then you’re 100% supporting one of these evil institutions.
This becomes even more dire when you’re talking about blocking Chinese solar panels and wind turbines so that you can defend US coal plants and gas stations.
What? Not buying Chinese products is somehow evil? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Regardless of what the article is advocating for, it’s making a really crucial point about Uyghur slavery, which is fucking evil, and you’re choosing to ignore it
When you’ve boycotted the Uyghurs so you can buy all your goods from occupied Kashmir and the sweatshops of Indonesia and Bangledesh, you’re not buying ethically. You’re just buying into the propaganda.
it’s making a really crucial point about Uyghur slavery
Is it? Are we doing anything to raise wages, improve working conditions, or enforce ethical standards on imports at long last?
Or is this just an effort to whip liberal support for Trump tariffs?
Don’t try to make this about ethical consumption. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Most Americans don’t even KNOW about the Uyghurs in China. Literally any exposure this horrible situation is doing something.
I think I’ve just come to the conclusion that there is no way you’re going to concede the point that the Chinese are committing atrocious human rights violations, are you?
It what ways? By literally opposing both the U.S. AND China and recognize both of their complicity in massive human rights violations? Why are you trying to whataboutism this?
Sometimes I wonder why .ml people are so american pilled, its like they can not think of English speaking person from outside the us, let alone that most us think the us and their odd ways are bad.
So the story is that the US and our allies, who have spent decades villifying imprisoning and killing muslims, and who have repeatedly verifiably lied about similar human rights abuses to justify our foreign policy before, are the only ones who can be trusted to tell the truth about the conditions for muslims who just happen to be living in the country which is our single greatest global rival politically and economically, about whom we have an extremely obvious foreign policy motive for lying, and everyone else is lying? Every muslim majority nation on earth is apparently only supporting China because they’re either corrupt or too terrified to oppose them, despite the fact that the US has been completely unable to get similar results for Israel with our best efforts? And despite having the most advanced surveillance technology on earth, despite having satellites that can take high resolution pictures of any patch of dirt on earth and an unmatched intelligence network, the US has somehow been unable to obtain any incontrovertible physical evidence of this supposed genocide for years? And you believe that?
No, that’s literally whataboutism. It’s saying the merit of their accusation is based on their history of doing that thing rather than evidence of who they’re accusing of doing it. Fairly typical ad hominem attack.
No, it’s not “whataboutism” because the source of the accusations is extremely relevant. The US and our allies lied about Iraq and Afghanistan to justify our invasions, and got all of the same western media outlets that are cosigning our accusations towards China did the same with those confirmed lies. We have a verifiable history of lying about other counteies to justify our foreign policy, and we have extremely obvious motive to lie about China right now. Pretending that’s not the case doesn’t help your credibility.
I’m known to do something actively, constantly, and on purpose. When I accuse another person of doing that thing, its a very good reason to cast doubt on my claims and motives. That is a perfectly valid argument.
New York is the de facto capital city of a literal slave empire who kidnaps people to foreign death camps so I’m thrilled to see what they’re reporting about China
You know it’s possible for multiple evils to exist, right? And sometimes they are also adversaries. Yes, the U.S. is evil. Yes, China is evil. Yes, Russia is evil. So in and so forth.
Classic case of whataboutism, it was a common “technique” very often used by the far-right in the 2015 US presidential elections
This isn’t a counterargument, it’s a thought-terminating cliche
What would you say about a newspaper that spread salacious rumors about a foreign country’s nuclear weapons program, months before the newspaper’s domestic government launched a full scale military invasion? What about a newspaper notorious for promoting narratives that have contributed to homophobia, racism, and moral panics aimed at religious minorities? Or a newspaper that had damning information about domestic leadership and deliberately covered it up until the end of an election cycle? A newspaper that regularly promoted the interests of its corporate sponsors ahead of the well-being of its readership? One that promoted misinformation in the middle of a pandemic? Or one that shamelessly promoted financial con-men in the middle of their most brazen acts of fraud?
Is that evil?
But we have to side with the US, because it is the lesser of two evils! So trust the NYT, uncritically. Again. In this new drum-beat towards war.
You don’t have to support any evil. You can choose to not support any of them. Why is it a dichotomy to you?
That’s why I cancelled my subscription.
Because the article is arguing for further US sanctions on Chinese trade goods. If you’re telling your neighbors, at the point of a US gun, not to buy Chinese products then you’re 100% supporting one of these evil institutions.
This becomes even more dire when you’re talking about blocking Chinese solar panels and wind turbines so that you can defend US coal plants and gas stations.
What? Not buying Chinese products is somehow evil? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Regardless of what the article is advocating for, it’s making a really crucial point about Uyghur slavery, which is fucking evil, and you’re choosing to ignore it
When you’ve boycotted the Uyghurs so you can buy all your goods from occupied Kashmir and the sweatshops of Indonesia and Bangledesh, you’re not buying ethically. You’re just buying into the propaganda.
Is it? Are we doing anything to raise wages, improve working conditions, or enforce ethical standards on imports at long last?
Or is this just an effort to whip liberal support for Trump tariffs?
Don’t try to make this about ethical consumption. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Most Americans don’t even KNOW about the Uyghurs in China. Literally any exposure this horrible situation is doing something.
I think I’ve just come to the conclusion that there is no way you’re going to concede the point that the Chinese are committing atrocious human rights violations, are you?
What do you think the sanctions of the Uyghurs was intended to accomplish? This was the explicit intent of the policy.
When I’ve seen what the NYT refuses to call genocide, I’m force towards skepticism when they finally do.
You are actively choosing to support evil right here and now
It what ways? By literally opposing both the U.S. AND China and recognize both of their complicity in massive human rights violations? Why are you trying to whataboutism this?
Sometimes I wonder why .ml people are so american pilled, its like they can not think of English speaking person from outside the us, let alone that most us think the us and their odd ways are bad.
thanks Weevil, I wasn’t willing to argue with the rabble and you have proven more eloquent than I would have
“but what about…”
This isn’t a counterargument, it’s a thought-terminating cliche
“It’s suspicious that well known sink-pisser Larry is accusing Bob of pissing in the sink” is not whataboutism.
If Bob is pissing in the sink, who the fuck cares if Larry The Sink Pisser is saying someone else is pissing in the sink too?
“what about all the sink pissing Larry has done?” is literally whataboutism.
Because larry also has a well documented history of making shit up about others, fucking duh
Which has nothing to do with sink-pissing.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl
https://www.memri.org/tv/saudi-palestinian-ambassadors-china-clean-bill-health-xinjiang-knows-best-internal-affairs-liberal-democracies-not-for-everyone
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/muslim-countries-joined-china-in-defending-its-cultural-genocide-of-uighurs-arent-they-ashamed/2019/07/20/0a7d62b4-aa3f-11e9-86dd-d7f0e60391e9_story.html
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2021/08/08/2003762216
So the story is that the US and our allies, who have spent decades villifying imprisoning and killing muslims, and who have repeatedly verifiably lied about similar human rights abuses to justify our foreign policy before, are the only ones who can be trusted to tell the truth about the conditions for muslims who just happen to be living in the country which is our single greatest global rival politically and economically, about whom we have an extremely obvious foreign policy motive for lying, and everyone else is lying? Every muslim majority nation on earth is apparently only supporting China because they’re either corrupt or too terrified to oppose them, despite the fact that the US has been completely unable to get similar results for Israel with our best efforts? And despite having the most advanced surveillance technology on earth, despite having satellites that can take high resolution pictures of any patch of dirt on earth and an unmatched intelligence network, the US has somehow been unable to obtain any incontrovertible physical evidence of this supposed genocide for years? And you believe that?
People still think the tank man got run over, its going to take a long fucking time to undo all this propaganda.
No, that’s literally whataboutism. It’s saying the merit of their accusation is based on their history of doing that thing rather than evidence of who they’re accusing of doing it. Fairly typical ad hominem attack.
No, it’s not “whataboutism” because the source of the accusations is extremely relevant. The US and our allies lied about Iraq and Afghanistan to justify our invasions, and got all of the same western media outlets that are cosigning our accusations towards China did the same with those confirmed lies. We have a verifiable history of lying about other counteies to justify our foreign policy, and we have extremely obvious motive to lie about China right now. Pretending that’s not the case doesn’t help your credibility.
Right! You can cast doubt on their honesty by pointing out that they have lied before. That’s called evidence.
However, saying they do the same thing as the other guy is not evidence of them lying. That’s whataboutism and ad hominem.
“I like to find any reason to not listen or understand anyone who doesnt agree with me!”
I’m known to do something actively, constantly, and on purpose. When I accuse another person of doing that thing, its a very good reason to cast doubt on my claims and motives. That is a perfectly valid argument.
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Speaking of ad hominem…
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It is? I’d like to read about that
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