Sure, ok. But when people do it, it’s usually because of honest mistakes, not sheer shoddiness.

Oh fuck! It’s a rare comment from you without thorn! Do I get a collector’s number or something?

it’s thorn guy! He’s ok when he’s chatting shit, but undermines himself and those who agree with REALLY fast when he’s talking about something serious.

OK, but when someone has looked at enough art to form an idea of the techniques they want to employ but for some reason, lacks the practical capability or chooses to create it through prose through the machine, how is it any different?

Or, collages are art (I assume). The artists gather existing images, choose/curate the correct ones, assemble them, and end up with their artwork. Why is it any different when someone chooses a catalog of LoRAs to create the images they want to? Do they have to dig through a bunch of shitty magazines?

Different art before the pedal. Unless you never learned, and just always knew how to do the thing?

knowing different concepts, and thinking about how they would be when they joined before having the material possession.

then that happened way before I bought the pedal itself. But if I didn’t buy the pedal I couldn’t express it the same way.

The anti-ai stuff has no philosophical sense behind it; it’s just vibes. But then again, people are just churning out slop. No one fucking wins or makes sense.

The art is the change that happens in a human in the creative process. AI just can’t experience that.

When I make a piece of music, and the way I express the distortion of time I feel through the turning of the time knob on my guitar pedal, when is the art being produced and by what? I’m pretty sure there’s some expression that is happening by me because I feel something, and I don’t think my guitar pedal is doing any feeling; however, I cannot express myself the same way without the guitar pedal.

The human being is the person piloting the AI. No one is expecting the AI (or any other tool used in self expression, like a paintbrush) to feel anything.

When you run the AI software, it doesn’t DO anything until you make it do something.

Are the anti AI people thinking that the works are generated by pressing a big green “GO” button, or that the AI is some kind of deformed , soulless human being?

I’m a fiddler on a roof.

EDIT : You need a shitload more hands to play some of the riffs Behold the arctopus come up with

Are we talking about Jackson Pollock or Yves Klein ?

I will accept a human being taping a banana to the wall of an art gallery to be art long before clanker visual puree.

Which human being is doing the expression there? The farmer that grew the banana? The factory worker that made the tape? The intern being made to tape the banana to the wall while the art she pours her soul into does not help make her ends meet? The prompt writer saying “tape a banana to the wall of the gallery, like , in the middle, and make sure the tape is diagonal”? The money launderer paying for the operation?

You’ve never heard of performance art?

Yeah, I’ve been to metal gigs and theatre shows.

EDIT : I’ve BEEN ON STAGE

If a prompt is art, then “make me a sandwich” is cooking.

But “tape a banana to a wall” is already art. What is your point now?

I take back my other fucking comment.

The actual context is more damning. Bro, they are out here taping bananas to walls and selling certificates of reproduction. It’s literally “give money to get banana”. We should be so lucky if someone instead told a computer they liked waifus with big enormous tits and we put that in a museum, at least there’s some human desire in there other than “MONEY LAUNDERING TIME! SURE DUCT TAPE BANANAS”

also, again, a prompt is prose is a vision. Yeah, AI is a wishing well, guess what, so are rougelikes, and people find good enough expression in them to play them and find some interest.

I take back my other fucking comment.

The actual context is more damning. Bro, they are out here taping bananas to walls and selling certificates of reproduction. It’s literally “give money to get banana”. We should be so lucky if someone instead told a computer they liked waifus with big enormous tits and we put that in a museum, at least there’s some human desire in there other than “MONEY LAUNDERING TIME! SURE DUCT TAPE BANANAS”

yes, and “I got paid $300 to take a photo of this model with enormous tits” is 100% the highest art.

Saying that your argument is based on a lack of familiarity with the topic being discussed is not.

I guess? But your insinuation that I have no familiarity with art, self expression or relevant fields is hurtful and an attack on my character.

I’ve spent enough time being upset that the best musicians of our age are forced to get second jobs while being upset at pop music before the advent of AI generated art. Corporate slop is still slop. Just because it was made in a boardroom instead of in a computer doesn’t give it any more soul.

I have also read about different fringe art styles, spent enough time on online , human generated art places to know what I enjoy and again, what I abhor due to the lazy, effort-free pieces they made that overshadowed better people.

I also messed around with AI art myself (NB : not “being an AI artist”, messed around with AI art generators). I also was interested in AI generated music by others, procedural generation of games, music and writing before the AI boom.

And let me assure you of a few things :

1. Re stating that yes, human beings also make unartistic slop which goes on to dominate human culture because it simply exploits markets and people that know no better.

2. a) Some of those sloppers found entire movements because of how their half assedness is a bold statement.

b) While ironically both de-legitimising and legitimising fields of art that would otherwise go un-noticed. Compare found objects with industrial design and set design. The initial idea is sound : what separates art from objects? Look at this thing and feel a feeling. Then after doing this shit for decades, we end up with basketballs in formaldehyde selling for millions. But again, Dieter Rams and other industrial designers have ideas they are communicating that deserve examination. Sets on films are also an underappreciated artform, but it’s “just finding a chair for a set”

3. a) There are two “axes” to art’s worth : what it means to a person, and the technical skill involved in making it. Some people aren’t artists. They might have “taste” or “desires” but no technical capability in executing it to a high degree of fidelity. Take children. When a child draws a portrait of a parent in about 30 seconds (I know that’s how long it takes my child, if I’m lucky), it is not “high fidelity”. The meaning, work and expression that drawing has for the parent and that child is more than all the Jackson Pollocks combined.

The AI artwork allows the person with no capability to express themselves in a field that was inaccessible to them before. Yes, AnYoNe CaN dRaW, but not to the degree they want to, without having to sacrifice so much time; perhaps time they literally cannot fucking afford.

b) Have you tried making art in a mechanically restrictive, not 100% controlled way? It takes a certain level of skill to make music by manipulating existing sounds with filters, or to make a piece of music relying on a specific piece of equipment like a guitar pedal to control not the pitch, but the timbre of the instrument. Or maybe you want to get a chicken to play the piano. These are also fringe ways of making art that isn’t 100% controlled, and relient on a manufactured machine , or non sapient animal. It’s still relevant, interesting and a worthwhile endeavour and a different way to express yourself.

c) Have you tried making art through AI? You too can stop basing your argument on a lack of familiarity if you want. I don’t mean slop “Make a cartoon of farm animals” into a generic supercomputer, actually fucking work with a raw ass, fine control seeking AI image generator. See how much effort you need to get something that looks both half decent and in line with what you’re trying to do. Because I’ve fucked around with it, and it needs at least some effort to make something that isn’t either mangled or completely sterile. You need some technical ability to get a balance of performance, fidelity, originality and certain vision.

4. What makes art and feelings, art and feelings? Who is the artist when you see a beautiful sunset? When you get feelings from being in the woods? When you see abstract art? If you see AI art that has an interesting concept that makes you think, is it invalid because it came from a machine? Is the person that came up with the idea negated by using a tool? Does there have to be a person involved in the curation of the experience for it to have meaning? Why do I need it to be validated by someone else?

If you think these are easily answerable questions in the field of art, you might be misguided.

Anyway, grats on baiting me into writing a paraphrased version of a rant I wrote over a year ago. I rate it b8 out of 8.

EDIT : I forgot to shoutout dadabots, which where exciting when they were the only horse in the race, in 2017 https://dadabots.bandcamp.com/album/coditany-of-timeness

guess what a prompt is

Yeah, it doesn’t vibe with me because I’m constantly moving windows from one place to another, comparing shit side by side and needing one thing as an edit then as a reference, keeping some things smaller and etc. I am starting to be maybe interested in trying out transparancy in my dropdown console and maybe a launcher that’s more central instead of “windows like” coming in from the bottom left. But I like my taskbars, especially with having different ones for different physical monitors.

there is sufficient context for that kind of head gymnastics. By looking at the picture, we can clearly see it’s peaches.

this is why I at least sanitise my inputs before using ddg’s ai stuff when I’m shit out of luck and can’t understand the documentation.

Because it’s just another privacy violating hole.

I *TRIED* to get a local model working (qwen2.5:1.5b, qwen2.5-coder:1.5b, it needs tooling and shit to be anywhere near useful, and the non coder version hallucinated files that don’t exist). My 8 year old laptop can’t fucking handle the AIs properly.

Not sure WTF to do about this; in order to be actually useful these things need total context. Maybe some kind of additional submodel (I forget the proper name, LORA or RAG or finetuning or something) to not have it have to try to get me results in the moment.

As an aside for my street cred, I was fucking around with local Stable diffusion in like Feb 2024 and fucked around with claude a bit back then too.

Largely not worth it back then, and now, it needs shitloads of processing power to do anything.

The tool is OK; if you don’t know something/have a skill it can help you achieve *something* but JESUS CHRIST the way they are using it is too fucking obscene.

well, here’s the shitposty thread I made last time I tried to voice the opinion and got got by gotchas in terminology :

https://lemmy.world/post/51030053?scrollToComments=true

Basically, some people are making interfaces for the operating systems that only have a windows manager, and isn’t a complete desktop environment, so it’s basically one step above a terminal. Things like i3 or dwm, as opposed to more fleshed out things like KDE or Gnome.

Gnome3 basically encourages the user to launch their programs as fullscreen things and scroll between them. The WM based UIs also do this, but call it “desktops” and tile the windows you have in each desktop.

I went through a craze of shoving different ones into VMs and felt that things like i3 and dwm behave similarly to the way I dislike Gnome3.

I’ve worded it like shit before, but :

Standalone WMs are basically Gnome3 for neckbeards.