I think “Never again to us” part is for the Zionists just propagandistic sloganeering rather than being heartfelt.
Maybe about 10% of Israelis are descendants of people who actually suffered directly or indirectly from the Holocaust (the origin of the overwhelming majority of Israelis is Russia and the Middle East, not Western Europe), the rest only have one thing in common with the victims of the Holocaust - they have the same Religion.
Now, unless one believes in a Jewish Hive Mind or some other kind of special (never demonstrated to exist) system that via nothing more than ethnicity propagates from person to person the pain and suffering of being a victim, it’s clear the overwhelmingly majority of Israelis (or, in fact, of Jewish People) are NOT victims or the Holocaust - no doubt they have an intelectual understanding of it, might even have been taught to fear that it might happen to them, but they certainly have not felt the pain nor actually empathise with people who feel that pain because neither they nor their close family or friends were ever in that situation.
(BTW, this probably explains why just a bit over 80% of the Israeli population supports what’s being done in Gaza).
However, the “racial victimhood” is a core element of ethno-Fascist propaganda, so specifically the Zionists have leveraged the shit out of claiming that the entire ethnicity which they claim to represent are victims, sometimes just to obtain beneficial treatment that people that ethnicities which aren’t portraid as such don’t get, other times such as now for the much more nefarious purpose of having extra leway whilst they commit their very own Holocaust on people of ethnicities they call “vermin”.
Worse, the use of such racial victimhood stories by the ethno-Fascist is mainly meant to induce fear of the other in the people whose ethnicity they claim to represent - just like the NAZIs before them, the Zionists claim that doing the murderous things they do to people of other ethnic origins is the only way for the people of the ethnicity they claim to represent to be protected from further victimization - in the process increasing the power of the ethno-Fascists, the Racism of the population and their willingness to commit the most inhumans of acts against those the ethno-Fascists deem “enemies” with the rationale that “it’s what we must do to save our race”.
In simple terms, the Zionists are leveraging the Holocaust to make it more likely that people who did not suffer from the Holocaust and only share an ethnicity with those who did, will support and even commit their own version of the Holocaust on those people whom the Zionists want to steal from, subdue and even murder.
I feel like the holocaust is just publicity for the zionist. All the politicians here take money from AIPAC.
I had a holocaust section each year after 5th grade passed between history and english classes. This has made me keenly aware of the depravity occurring in Gaza.
They expect the programming to shield them into perpituity as we watch them commit the same acts we were raised to have disgust for. I never learning a thing about jews or israel, no explanation for the nazi’s hatred.
I remember in college there was always a weird old man holding a “save palestine” poster during football games back on 2017. That was really the only time I saw hints of an issue, which I ignored because I just thought he was a crazy homeless.
It’s shocking to me that Isreal culture is so tolerant for evil. It makes humanity feel more predictable, easy to manipulate, almost animal. No values or principles able to stop a modern genocide. It’s numbing.
Whilst the Holocaust has been de facto weaponized in countries like Germany, UK and US to enable the vile actions of the most murderous present day white supremacist nation which are fast turning into another Holocaust, personally I think it is important for people to empathise with the victims of the Holocaust and, ideally, feel horror at the idea of such things being done to human beings, ANY human beings.
I would say that you can distinguish the genuine, “Never again should be this done to anybody” rememberances of the Holocaust from the racialized propagandistic or at least propaganda-tainted ones, by the obcession in the latter with the Jewish victims, whilst the former are much more agnostic in terms of the ethnicity of the victims. For the NAZI Holocaust there’s quite a simple test for this: do they mention both the Jewish People and the Roma People or neither, or do they overwhelmingly focus of the Jewish victims but not other victims? The NAZIs didn’t just target Jews for extermination, they also targetted other groups of people such as the Romani (1/4 million of who were murderered by the NAZIs) the handicappped and even Communists.
Remembering the horrors of the Holocaust is important, it’s the hyper-racialized variants of the rememberances (a format which, curiously, follows the NAZI mindset that people’s race is the most important thing) that I disagree with because I believe it promotes racist interpretations of the world and even racist beliefs (for example, the idea that all Jews are victims when in reality only a fraction of them were actual victims requires believing in a version of “All Jews are the same”) and can be used by supremacist ideologies to spread feelings of fear amongst people of the etnicity they claim to represent and to defend, in order to make such people more Racist and more approving of the actions of the supremacists (which is exactly what we see in Israel)
The Humanitarian “Never again should be this done to anybody”, is very very different in terms of the way to look at people and of its objectives, than the Race-specific “Never again should be this done to Jews”, especially in light of there having been very large numbers other victims of the Holocaust - some even targetted for extermination due to their ethnicity - whose pain the latter version disregards.
I agree with much of the intent of what you’ve said, but your revisionist and exceptionally inaccurate history is really going to bias people to ignore you.
The holocaust did not occur in a vacuum and was the culmination of centuries of antisemitic violence across all of Europe, from Western Europe but certainly throughout the Russian empire. In fact, Zionism arose as a capitalist ethnonationalist aligned response to the incredible waves of pogroms that were sweeping through the flailing Russian empire. It’s very hard to distinguish this era of European history along tight geographical lines–that is to say, any Eastern European descended Jew, in Israel or elsewhere, almost certainly has a direct family connection with the overall context of the holocaust.
With that said, you are certainly right that an enormous proportion of Israeli Jews, approximately half, are from the middle east. Hell, there are multiple sub-dialects of Arabic associated with these many groups (Judeo-Arabic).
Ultimately, Zionism never justified itself primarily based upon the holocaust because it predates the holocaust by damned near a half century. Obviously, the holocaust and history of pogroms feed significantly into the Zionist narrative, but you have to understand thag Zionism is unquestionably an artifact of the ascendant moment of ethnonationalism that was taking place as the old colonial empires and monarchist systems of power began to fall.
It was also spearheaded by wealthy capitalists. Most of the time time, if the question right now is why is something so fucked up, the answer is “because capitalists.”
Maybe you’re missed my point: for the Zionists is “Never again to us”, not “Never again to anybody”.
The way the Holocaust is “remembered” by the Zionists and countries like the US, UK and Germany, is Race-specific, so for example there is no mention of the Roma People who were equally targetted by the NAZIs for extermination, exactly the same as the Jewish People, with a quarter of a million of Romani murdered by the NAZIs.
There is no denial that the Jewish People were a prosecuted minority in most of Europe for literally centuries and in fact the biggest reason for so many Jews to have ended up a Traders and Bankers was exactly because they were not allowed to own land, which was the traditional way to be wealthy in Europe, so the only path open for social progression for a Jewish person was towards what later was called the burgeousie, something which was later twisted into a “reason” to attack Jews in general.
There is also no denial that such is not the case anymore in almost all of Europe and hasn’t been for decades. Meanwhile the Roma People keep on being discriminated against.
IMHO, this is the result of going doing the path of a race-specific perspective on the Holocaust (a perspective which, curiously, continues the NAZI mindset that race is the most important thing about somebody) rather that the Humanist which is one of horror and rejection of such things being done to people, any people of any ethnicity and for any reason.
As it so happens, the focus on just the Jewish ethnicity when talking about the Holocaust (a focus you yourself seem to be aping in your post, were you casually forgot the very similar situation for the Roma People, one which, unlike for the Jewish people, still continues to this day - though hopefully that’s something you’re unwittingly rather than purposefully doing because you’re the product of the messaging you grew up with) serves the interests of the white jewish supremacist political ideology called Zionism.
You will notice that a “Never again to anybody” perspective, applies to everything including the Holocaust (and thus, when shaping the way the Holocaust was rememberered, would not forget other groups mass murdered such as the Roma People, the Handicapped or ever the Communists) equally rejects both the NAZI Holocaust and what’s fast becoming a new Holocaust, this time commited by the Zionists against those they openly call “vermin”.
This is the core of my point: there is The Holocaust, which should HAVE BEEN remembered in all its horror so that such things happen ever again to anybody, and there’s the hyper-racialized, narrowly focused view on the Holocaust which upholds the way of looking at people of the NAZIs (as first and foremost race-members), which is the one that the Zionists push and which, sadly, has been adopted in a number of countries and even supported by countless movies (do you know that there are only around 14 films, EVER made, about the plight of the Roma People in the Holocaust - curiously most of which having been made in Hungary?).
I think “Never again to us” part is for the Zionists just propagandistic sloganeering rather than being heartfelt.
Maybe about 10% of Israelis are descendants of people who actually suffered directly or indirectly from the Holocaust (the origin of the overwhelming majority of Israelis is Russia and the Middle East, not Western Europe), the rest only have one thing in common with the victims of the Holocaust - they have the same Religion.
Now, unless one believes in a Jewish Hive Mind or some other kind of special (never demonstrated to exist) system that via nothing more than ethnicity propagates from person to person the pain and suffering of being a victim, it’s clear the overwhelmingly majority of Israelis (or, in fact, of Jewish People) are NOT victims or the Holocaust - no doubt they have an intelectual understanding of it, might even have been taught to fear that it might happen to them, but they certainly have not felt the pain nor actually empathise with people who feel that pain because neither they nor their close family or friends were ever in that situation.
(BTW, this probably explains why just a bit over 80% of the Israeli population supports what’s being done in Gaza).
However, the “racial victimhood” is a core element of ethno-Fascist propaganda, so specifically the Zionists have leveraged the shit out of claiming that the entire ethnicity which they claim to represent are victims, sometimes just to obtain beneficial treatment that people that ethnicities which aren’t portraid as such don’t get, other times such as now for the much more nefarious purpose of having extra leway whilst they commit their very own Holocaust on people of ethnicities they call “vermin”.
Worse, the use of such racial victimhood stories by the ethno-Fascist is mainly meant to induce fear of the other in the people whose ethnicity they claim to represent - just like the NAZIs before them, the Zionists claim that doing the murderous things they do to people of other ethnic origins is the only way for the people of the ethnicity they claim to represent to be protected from further victimization - in the process increasing the power of the ethno-Fascists, the Racism of the population and their willingness to commit the most inhumans of acts against those the ethno-Fascists deem “enemies” with the rationale that “it’s what we must do to save our race”.
In simple terms, the Zionists are leveraging the Holocaust to make it more likely that people who did not suffer from the Holocaust and only share an ethnicity with those who did, will support and even commit their own version of the Holocaust on those people whom the Zionists want to steal from, subdue and even murder.
I feel like the holocaust is just publicity for the zionist. All the politicians here take money from AIPAC.
I had a holocaust section each year after 5th grade passed between history and english classes. This has made me keenly aware of the depravity occurring in Gaza.
They expect the programming to shield them into perpituity as we watch them commit the same acts we were raised to have disgust for. I never learning a thing about jews or israel, no explanation for the nazi’s hatred.
I remember in college there was always a weird old man holding a “save palestine” poster during football games back on 2017. That was really the only time I saw hints of an issue, which I ignored because I just thought he was a crazy homeless.
It’s shocking to me that Isreal culture is so tolerant for evil. It makes humanity feel more predictable, easy to manipulate, almost animal. No values or principles able to stop a modern genocide. It’s numbing.
Whilst the Holocaust has been de facto weaponized in countries like Germany, UK and US to enable the vile actions of the most murderous present day white supremacist nation which are fast turning into another Holocaust, personally I think it is important for people to empathise with the victims of the Holocaust and, ideally, feel horror at the idea of such things being done to human beings, ANY human beings.
I would say that you can distinguish the genuine, “Never again should be this done to anybody” rememberances of the Holocaust from the racialized propagandistic or at least propaganda-tainted ones, by the obcession in the latter with the Jewish victims, whilst the former are much more agnostic in terms of the ethnicity of the victims. For the NAZI Holocaust there’s quite a simple test for this: do they mention both the Jewish People and the Roma People or neither, or do they overwhelmingly focus of the Jewish victims but not other victims? The NAZIs didn’t just target Jews for extermination, they also targetted other groups of people such as the Romani (1/4 million of who were murderered by the NAZIs) the handicappped and even Communists.
Remembering the horrors of the Holocaust is important, it’s the hyper-racialized variants of the rememberances (a format which, curiously, follows the NAZI mindset that people’s race is the most important thing) that I disagree with because I believe it promotes racist interpretations of the world and even racist beliefs (for example, the idea that all Jews are victims when in reality only a fraction of them were actual victims requires believing in a version of “All Jews are the same”) and can be used by supremacist ideologies to spread feelings of fear amongst people of the etnicity they claim to represent and to defend, in order to make such people more Racist and more approving of the actions of the supremacists (which is exactly what we see in Israel)
The Humanitarian “Never again should be this done to anybody”, is very very different in terms of the way to look at people and of its objectives, than the Race-specific “Never again should be this done to Jews”, especially in light of there having been very large numbers other victims of the Holocaust - some even targetted for extermination due to their ethnicity - whose pain the latter version disregards.
I agree with much of the intent of what you’ve said, but your revisionist and exceptionally inaccurate history is really going to bias people to ignore you.
The holocaust did not occur in a vacuum and was the culmination of centuries of antisemitic violence across all of Europe, from Western Europe but certainly throughout the Russian empire. In fact, Zionism arose as a capitalist ethnonationalist aligned response to the incredible waves of pogroms that were sweeping through the flailing Russian empire. It’s very hard to distinguish this era of European history along tight geographical lines–that is to say, any Eastern European descended Jew, in Israel or elsewhere, almost certainly has a direct family connection with the overall context of the holocaust.
With that said, you are certainly right that an enormous proportion of Israeli Jews, approximately half, are from the middle east. Hell, there are multiple sub-dialects of Arabic associated with these many groups (Judeo-Arabic).
Ultimately, Zionism never justified itself primarily based upon the holocaust because it predates the holocaust by damned near a half century. Obviously, the holocaust and history of pogroms feed significantly into the Zionist narrative, but you have to understand thag Zionism is unquestionably an artifact of the ascendant moment of ethnonationalism that was taking place as the old colonial empires and monarchist systems of power began to fall.
It was also spearheaded by wealthy capitalists. Most of the time time, if the question right now is why is something so fucked up, the answer is “because capitalists.”
Maybe you’re missed my point: for the Zionists is “Never again to us”, not “Never again to anybody”.
The way the Holocaust is “remembered” by the Zionists and countries like the US, UK and Germany, is Race-specific, so for example there is no mention of the Roma People who were equally targetted by the NAZIs for extermination, exactly the same as the Jewish People, with a quarter of a million of Romani murdered by the NAZIs.
There is no denial that the Jewish People were a prosecuted minority in most of Europe for literally centuries and in fact the biggest reason for so many Jews to have ended up a Traders and Bankers was exactly because they were not allowed to own land, which was the traditional way to be wealthy in Europe, so the only path open for social progression for a Jewish person was towards what later was called the burgeousie, something which was later twisted into a “reason” to attack Jews in general.
There is also no denial that such is not the case anymore in almost all of Europe and hasn’t been for decades. Meanwhile the Roma People keep on being discriminated against.
IMHO, this is the result of going doing the path of a race-specific perspective on the Holocaust (a perspective which, curiously, continues the NAZI mindset that race is the most important thing about somebody) rather that the Humanist which is one of horror and rejection of such things being done to people, any people of any ethnicity and for any reason.
As it so happens, the focus on just the Jewish ethnicity when talking about the Holocaust (a focus you yourself seem to be aping in your post, were you casually forgot the very similar situation for the Roma People, one which, unlike for the Jewish people, still continues to this day - though hopefully that’s something you’re unwittingly rather than purposefully doing because you’re the product of the messaging you grew up with) serves the interests of the white jewish supremacist political ideology called Zionism.
You will notice that a “Never again to anybody” perspective, applies to everything including the Holocaust (and thus, when shaping the way the Holocaust was rememberered, would not forget other groups mass murdered such as the Roma People, the Handicapped or ever the Communists) equally rejects both the NAZI Holocaust and what’s fast becoming a new Holocaust, this time commited by the Zionists against those they openly call “vermin”.
This is the core of my point: there is The Holocaust, which should HAVE BEEN remembered in all its horror so that such things happen ever again to anybody, and there’s the hyper-racialized, narrowly focused view on the Holocaust which upholds the way of looking at people of the NAZIs (as first and foremost race-members), which is the one that the Zionists push and which, sadly, has been adopted in a number of countries and even supported by countless movies (do you know that there are only around 14 films, EVER made, about the plight of the Roma People in the Holocaust - curiously most of which having been made in Hungary?).