Chef was written out for being a hypocritical scientologist who was fine with trashing everyone up until they put cruise in the closet. They killed him off in a you ain’t ever coming back way. He died two years after they killed him off in the show.
I think you’re forgetting two key factors here: one is that he suffered a stroke in 2006 and didn’t really do much of ANY work after that. According to one of his 11 sons 3 sons (out of 11 kids, holy shit my dude), Isaac Hayes III:
Isaac Hayes did not quit South Park; someone quit South Park for him. What happened was that in January 2006 my dad had a stroke and lost the ability to speak. He really didn’t have that much comprehension, and he had to relearn to play the piano and a lot of different things. He was in no position to resign under his own knowledge. At the time, everybody around my father was involved in Scientology — his assistants, the core group of people. So someone quit South Park on Isaac Hayes’ behalf. We don’t know who. … My father was not that big of a hypocrite to be part of a show that would constantly poke fun at African-American people, Jewish people, gay people — and only quit when it comes to Scientology. He wouldn’t be that hypocritical.
Now whether you choose to believe all that or not is up to you, but the other key factor you forgot to consider is that Scientology IS a cult. From the limited amount of data we’ve been able to gleam from their internal workings, they have a habit of forcing their members to constantly push themselves beyond their limits, regardless of what any medical doctor would advise; because in their warped worldview, all faults or shortcomings, mental and physical, are all just the result of Thetans and can be overcome, regardless of the health of the individual. We have some anecdotes of people who have left with claims that the ‘Chirch’ would use typical cult behaviors that all amounted to increased control over their victims: borderline starvation, massive amounts of physical exercise to promote exhaustion, recontextualizing their worldview to make all this horseshit more acceptable, etc.
Anyway, my point is, Hayes died at the age of 65 after a recurrence of the previously mentioned stroke and was found lying on the floor next to a still-running treadmill. In my (unprofessional) opinion, Scientology killed him, simple as that. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was deliberate, nor that Hayes was ENTIRELY guilt-free (he did still join them initially), but the fact is that the last several years of his life were almost completely controlled for him and the people behind those decisions clearly put the CoS first and Hayes at a very distant second
Edit: I originally misspoke and said Hayes had 11 sons. He had 11 children, but only 3 were sons
None of it was mentioned at the time. It seems more likely it is revisionist history. Which is understandable since its originating from the family. I know what scientology is. As I know what a cult is. A cult is a small unpopular religion. A religion is a large popular cult. Which one hubbards brainfart low grade fantasy fiction falls under is debatable and redundant. He gave up his control and that is on him and only him. Blaming a MLM scheme hiding as a religion for a death is pointless since there was nothing that prevented him from breaking away as others have done.
If you call that revisionist history, then what do you call the fact that immediately after his first stroke, his PR team (heavily associated with Scientology) tried to claim that he merely suffered from an episode of “high blood pressure and exhaustion” only for the truth to be revealed 6 months later that it was indeed a stroke?
He gave up his control and that is on him and only him.
Like I said in my initial comment, he did choose to join them on his own free will, so we’re in agreement there. But I also said that his last few years (i.e. everything post-'06 stroke) was controlled by the Scientologists when he was not in a position to tell them to fuck off, even if he wanted to (which admittedly, would be debatable). They saw an opening and ran with it, that was my point; you’re claiming that he willingly gave up all his autonomy and I simply don’t agree with that. Or at least he was not mentally sound enough to be able to do so, just like how putting rohypnol in someone’s drink doesn’t equal “yes means yes”
Blaming a MLM scheme hiding as a religion for a death is pointless since there was nothing that prevented him from breaking away as others have done.
Simply because some have broken ties with the cult doesn’t mean that all members have the same options to break away as the fortunate few. ESPECIALLY if the majority of the people around him, those controlling his perception of the outside world, were actively trying to keep him in. A core fundamental philosophy from Hubbard himself was to draw in as many celebrities as possible for the express purpose of using them to prostelytize his works. Plus, and let’s be frank here, Hayes was not in the prime of his life anymore; he wasn’t so far gone as to be labeled “decrepit” or “on death’s door” at the time of his death, but even if he was living completely alone and didn’t have Church members constantly surrounding/influencing him, it’s hard to say whether or not he would’ve had the opportunity to leave.
I mean, come on man, the Church literally encourages members to “disconnect” with all aspects and people of their former lives who are not themselves members. It’s also pretty common knowledge that anyone who leaves is not only shunned by the organization (which, if the disconnection was effective) had been the basis for their entire lives for a long time by that point; they’re also contantly harassed, stalked, and occasionally threatened directly from still-current members. Even if those actions aren’t technically ordered to be done by the leaders, they still happen regularly without any condemnation or comment from the top brass. And this isn’t even getting into the multiple deaths they are DIRECTLY responsible for, or the fact that Shelly Miscavige (the wife of the current head of rhe Church) has not publicly been seen ANYWHERE by ANYONE since 2007. Or Operation Snow White in the 1970s where up to 5,000 individual members worked to get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government for the explicit and stated purpose of covering up Hubbard’s and the Church’s more controversial practices. If they can manage to pull all that shit off and still somehow get away without the most minor of consequences, I’m sure they can manage to draft the equivalent of a Termination of Emploment, convince a perpetually confused Isaac into signing it, and then sending it off to the South Park offices.
tl;dr You’re forgetting the most important single line from that episode of South Park:
We shouldn’t be mad at Chef. We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains
Like I said in the other comment since one comment just wouldn’t do. I see it differently. I know how a cult works. I know how a religion works. Its all pretty much the same.
I know how the world works and I know how things get retold to flatter someone especially posthumously.
I see nothing in that Wikipedia article to suggest anything other than revisionist history. Nothing.
IDK What suit your talking about. Isaac Hayes suffered a stroke after the episode aired, and the Church of Scientology released a statement on his behalf. Hayes’ son set the record straight over a decade after his dad died. Here’s the tweet.
For over 14 years, people have speculated about why my father @isaachayes left South Park. I’m here to set the record straight. My dad did not quit South Park. Scientology did.
After the episode Trapped in the Closet aired in 2005, my father suffered a stroke just a few months later that left him unable to speak or make decisions on his own. He was not in any condition to resign from anything. The truth is, someone else within his Scientology circle made that decision and quit the show for him.
He loved being the voice of Chef. He loved the character. He loved connecting with fans. He would joke with people who recognized his voice, and he truly enjoyed being part of the show.
The narrative that he quit because he was offended by the satire is not true. That was a cover story created by others. My father never got to speak for himself because his health robbed him of that chance.
So now I am speaking for him. He did not leave South Park willingly. He was forced out by illness and by people who did not have his best interest at heart.
This is for anyone who loved Chef. This is for anyone who admired my father’s work. This is the truth about what really happened.
Hayes previously stated that although he didn’t like those jokes, he got them and still liked being a part of the show. I’m pretty sure South Park made jokes about Scientology before this episode. So why wouldn’t he have left earlier if that was what he had a problem with?
Lol I love how you and I basically made the same arguments against two different people trying to shift blame away from Scientology. It’s almost like nobody listened to Kyle when he said the most important line from that episode aka Matt and Trey talking directly to the audience:
We shouldn’t be mad at Chef. We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains
Did you read the same page as I did? Because if you actually read the entire section about his departure, it not only mentions the fact that he had his first stroke right before the episode aired (after which he didn’t really do too much of ANY work at all until his death 2 years later from a second stroke) but also that the decision largely stemmed from his entourage, all ardent Scientologists; a group famous for coercing members into disconnecting from everyone outside of the Church upon joining as well as harassing the shit out of them if they ever get find the strength to leave. One of Hayes’ sons even came forth and said that in all the confusion, nobody really knows who made the decision for him to leave, but it was almost definitely someone from that group.
I mean this is a cult with a long and varied history of doing whatever it takes for good PR, even going so far as to have up to 5,000 individual members get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government throughout the whole of the 70s for the explicit purpose of covering up/erasing controversial material against Hubbard himself and the Church as a whole (just google Operation Snow White). If they can pull that off and somehow walk away with minimal consequences, I’m sure they could find someone to draft up a “Termination of Emploment” or something and convince/trick/coerce Hayes into signing it.
Looks like you are triggered and have some vested interest in me seeing it like you do. Trouble is I was around during the whole thing and it was clear hayes stayed out of the episode and his family could have came forward then but didn’t. You see truth in what I see ambiguity. Welcome to the world.
No, Chef was removed at the request of one of his family members because of his association with Scientology. Isaac Hayes died two years after the removal of Chef.
didn’t isaac hayes have an argument with matt and trey, because hayes was a massive figure in the scientology space, and south park making an episode criticising scientology? that’s what i heard.
edit: just saw the replies below. Yes, i thought so.
I recall Matt and Trey said he wasn’t all that upset, he just wouldn’t take part in that specific episode. But then after the episode aired there was a falling out. But maybe he had a stroke?
I’m not 100% on the deets, but i know there was something about scientology. He did have a stroke though, but that was after the south park/scientology stuff though.
Yeah details are sketchy on this. But from what Matt and Trey have said it was only after the episode aired there was a problem, and it was probably CoS that told him he couldn’t be on the show anymore.
The episode where Chef is turned into Darth Vader kinda indicates it’s something like this if you read between the lines. Weirdly sad episode because you can tell Matt and Trey missed him and really wanted him to come back.
Same for Isaac Hayes (Chef), though less murdered and more natural causes.
Chef was written out for being a hypocritical scientologist who was fine with trashing everyone up until they put cruise in the closet. They killed him off in a you ain’t ever coming back way. He died two years after they killed him off in the show.
I think you’re forgetting two key factors here: one is that he suffered a stroke in 2006 and didn’t really do much of ANY work after that. According to one of his
11 sons3 sons (out of 11 kids, holy shit my dude), Isaac Hayes III:Now whether you choose to believe all that or not is up to you, but the other key factor you forgot to consider is that Scientology IS a cult. From the limited amount of data we’ve been able to gleam from their internal workings, they have a habit of forcing their members to constantly push themselves beyond their limits, regardless of what any medical doctor would advise; because in their warped worldview, all faults or shortcomings, mental and physical, are all just the result of Thetans and can be overcome, regardless of the health of the individual. We have some anecdotes of people who have left with claims that the ‘Chirch’ would use typical cult behaviors that all amounted to increased control over their victims: borderline starvation, massive amounts of physical exercise to promote exhaustion, recontextualizing their worldview to make all this horseshit more acceptable, etc.
Anyway, my point is, Hayes died at the age of 65 after a recurrence of the previously mentioned stroke and was found lying on the floor next to a still-running treadmill. In my (unprofessional) opinion, Scientology killed him, simple as that. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was deliberate, nor that Hayes was ENTIRELY guilt-free (he did still join them initially), but the fact is that the last several years of his life were almost completely controlled for him and the people behind those decisions clearly put the CoS first and Hayes at a very distant second
Edit: I originally misspoke and said Hayes had 11 sons. He had 11 children, but only 3 were sons
None of it was mentioned at the time. It seems more likely it is revisionist history. Which is understandable since its originating from the family. I know what scientology is. As I know what a cult is. A cult is a small unpopular religion. A religion is a large popular cult. Which one hubbards brainfart low grade fantasy fiction falls under is debatable and redundant. He gave up his control and that is on him and only him. Blaming a MLM scheme hiding as a religion for a death is pointless since there was nothing that prevented him from breaking away as others have done.
If you call that revisionist history, then what do you call the fact that immediately after his first stroke, his PR team (heavily associated with Scientology) tried to claim that he merely suffered from an episode of “high blood pressure and exhaustion” only for the truth to be revealed 6 months later that it was indeed a stroke?
Like I said in my initial comment, he did choose to join them on his own free will, so we’re in agreement there. But I also said that his last few years (i.e. everything post-'06 stroke) was controlled by the Scientologists when he was not in a position to tell them to fuck off, even if he wanted to (which admittedly, would be debatable). They saw an opening and ran with it, that was my point; you’re claiming that he willingly gave up all his autonomy and I simply don’t agree with that. Or at least he was not mentally sound enough to be able to do so, just like how putting rohypnol in someone’s drink doesn’t equal “yes means yes”
Simply because some have broken ties with the cult doesn’t mean that all members have the same options to break away as the fortunate few. ESPECIALLY if the majority of the people around him, those controlling his perception of the outside world, were actively trying to keep him in. A core fundamental philosophy from Hubbard himself was to draw in as many celebrities as possible for the express purpose of using them to prostelytize his works. Plus, and let’s be frank here, Hayes was not in the prime of his life anymore; he wasn’t so far gone as to be labeled “decrepit” or “on death’s door” at the time of his death, but even if he was living completely alone and didn’t have Church members constantly surrounding/influencing him, it’s hard to say whether or not he would’ve had the opportunity to leave.
I mean, come on man, the Church literally encourages members to “disconnect” with all aspects and people of their former lives who are not themselves members. It’s also pretty common knowledge that anyone who leaves is not only shunned by the organization (which, if the disconnection was effective) had been the basis for their entire lives for a long time by that point; they’re also contantly harassed, stalked, and occasionally threatened directly from still-current members. Even if those actions aren’t technically ordered to be done by the leaders, they still happen regularly without any condemnation or comment from the top brass. And this isn’t even getting into the multiple deaths they are DIRECTLY responsible for, or the fact that Shelly Miscavige (the wife of the current head of rhe Church) has not publicly been seen ANYWHERE by ANYONE since 2007. Or Operation Snow White in the 1970s where up to 5,000 individual members worked to get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government for the explicit and stated purpose of covering up Hubbard’s and the Church’s more controversial practices. If they can manage to pull all that shit off and still somehow get away without the most minor of consequences, I’m sure they can manage to draft the equivalent of a Termination of Emploment, convince a perpetually confused Isaac into signing it, and then sending it off to the South Park offices.
tl;dr You’re forgetting the most important single line from that episode of South Park:
Like I said in the other comment since one comment just wouldn’t do. I see it differently. I know how a cult works. I know how a religion works. Its all pretty much the same.
I know how the world works and I know how things get retold to flatter someone especially posthumously.
I see nothing in that Wikipedia article to suggest anything other than revisionist history. Nothing.
Chef was written out because Isaac Hayes lost his shit when South Park went hard on Scientology. They killed off the character well before Hayes died.
IDK What suit your talking about. Isaac Hayes suffered a stroke after the episode aired, and the Church of Scientology released a statement on his behalf. Hayes’ son set the record straight over a decade after his dad died. Here’s the tweet.
Here is the original tweet. Hayes son has also said this in an interview.
Hayes previously stated that although he didn’t like those jokes, he got them and still liked being a part of the show. I’m pretty sure South Park made jokes about Scientology before this episode. So why wouldn’t he have left earlier if that was what he had a problem with?
Here is even more info about it.
So we can all stop down voting OP for being correct.
Lol I love how you and I basically made the same arguments against two different people trying to shift blame away from Scientology. It’s almost like nobody listened to Kyle when he said the most important line from that episode aka Matt and Trey talking directly to the audience:
Guess wikipedia has it all wrong then. Random internet stranger is better than wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Hayes
Did you read the same page as I did? Because if you actually read the entire section about his departure, it not only mentions the fact that he had his first stroke right before the episode aired (after which he didn’t really do too much of ANY work at all until his death 2 years later from a second stroke) but also that the decision largely stemmed from his entourage, all ardent Scientologists; a group famous for coercing members into disconnecting from everyone outside of the Church upon joining as well as harassing the shit out of them if they ever get find the strength to leave. One of Hayes’ sons even came forth and said that in all the confusion, nobody really knows who made the decision for him to leave, but it was almost definitely someone from that group.
I mean this is a cult with a long and varied history of doing whatever it takes for good PR, even going so far as to have up to 5,000 individual members get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government throughout the whole of the 70s for the explicit purpose of covering up/erasing controversial material against Hubbard himself and the Church as a whole (just google Operation Snow White). If they can pull that off and somehow walk away with minimal consequences, I’m sure they could find someone to draft up a “Termination of Emploment” or something and convince/trick/coerce Hayes into signing it.
Looks like you are triggered and have some vested interest in me seeing it like you do. Trouble is I was around during the whole thing and it was clear hayes stayed out of the episode and his family could have came forward then but didn’t. You see truth in what I see ambiguity. Welcome to the world.
No, Chef was removed at the request of one of his family members because of his association with Scientology. Isaac Hayes died two years after the removal of Chef.
https://discuss.online/comment/23621137
didn’t isaac hayes have an argument with matt and trey, because hayes was a massive figure in the scientology space, and south park making an episode criticising scientology? that’s what i heard.
edit: just saw the replies below. Yes, i thought so.
https://discuss.online/comment/23621137
Ah. Thanks
I recall Matt and Trey said he wasn’t all that upset, he just wouldn’t take part in that specific episode. But then after the episode aired there was a falling out. But maybe he had a stroke?
I’m not 100% on the deets, but i know there was something about scientology. He did have a stroke though, but that was after the south park/scientology stuff though.
Yeah details are sketchy on this. But from what Matt and Trey have said it was only after the episode aired there was a problem, and it was probably CoS that told him he couldn’t be on the show anymore.
The episode where Chef is turned into Darth Vader kinda indicates it’s something like this if you read between the lines. Weirdly sad episode because you can tell Matt and Trey missed him and really wanted him to come back.