In the US we’re not quite USSR/CCP-levels of these things yet (which are the countries anti-socialist people think of when they demonize socialism) (therefore the post is hyperbole/propaganda), but we’ve been making big leaps lately so I think this meme will be true soon.
I think the much more coherent, accurate, and therefore effective facet of this is pointing out that it’s authoritarianism that does this, not socialism. We’ve had (very limited) socialism in the US for many years, and many prosperous and well-regarded-in-supposed-anti-socialist-people’s-eyes countries have more socialism than the US has.
So which items on the list are not happening right now in America?
Give it a few years, and we won’t even have porn…
The pot is calling the kettle black.
We can still protest. We still have a legal right to free speech. It’s not worth the hyperbole. It also perpetuates a misconception that authoritarianism doesn’t allow for protests and free speech.
The model we are emulating is competitive authoritarianism. For the past four decades it has been an increasingly popular form of government.
There will be elections. There will be protests. There will be opposing parties and anti-government speech.
But the tables will be tilted heavily. They will allow small opposition wins, but the majority will stay with one party.
Speech won’t be illegal, but you will be harassed. Asked questions by law enforcement. Press will be sued.
They will leverage the private/public surveillance apparatus to monitor public sentiment on all topics and how far they can push (and release pressure when needed) and what opposition to monitor/harass. Decades of data from political science, sociology, and psychology will make this an art.
It’s dangerous if we perpetuate the idea that authoritarianism only exists when we can’t protest or say anti-government things. The underlying institutional foundations are being changed now. The referees are being captured now. Press and citizens can legally say what they want, but the chilling effect is happening now.
We need more mobilization. Hyperbolic takes and not being clear on what authoritarianism actually looks like in the 21st century will make it harder.
this nerdy declaration of facts serves what purpose? the OP’s points would ring true with your average american and make them think deeper about the culture they live in and the dynamics swirling around them.
right-wingers don’t care about facts and it would appear year after year after year that militantly pointing to all these obvious contradictions and mistruths never accomplishes anything, no more than it does to the religious zealot that ignores the gospels.
but anyone left of center is expected to lay down absolute undisputable facts at all times.
who does that help?
I broadly agree, but the idea that the USA doesn’t have protests at all is overstating the case to an obvious degree, given the widespread coverage each No Kings protest gets, with particular emphasis on how large the crowds are. One could argue that these protests are ineffective, but the phrasing in the OP is “no protests”, which is provably wrong.
I point this out because in my experience, when attempting to persuade, it’s better to make 99 good points than to make 99 good points and 1 weak one. Because people hostile to your overall argument will focus on that 1 weak point and make it seem (to casual observers) like your entire argument must be that weak.
To put in in perspective, China has over 10,000 protests every year, and the CPC responds to the vast majority of the grievances that triggered them, imprisoning corrupt local officials, fixing infrastructure, etc. That’s why the satisfaction rating with the central government is at 90+%.
How about no protests where you don’t feel like your government is putting you on a list?
Sure, but my point is that if that’s what you mean then that’s what you should say. It’s important to keep a message simple, but not at the expense of honesty. Otherwise a lot of people tune out.
If the protest is meaningless then it is effectively the same as not even being allowed. One could argue it’s almost worse because it gives the illusion of the right.
the idea that the USA doesn’t have protests at all is overstating the case
One could argue that these protests are ineffective
I believe the argument is that they are functionally criminalized.
Protesting is legal.
You are describing a chilling effect. Those weapons are not used at all protests and that is the point. They want you think twice before going to protest. Still though, in general, it’s not criminal to attend or organize a protest.
It’s good that you and everyone here knows that these things are happening. If the twitter post was just speaking to the choir, then what’s the point? Circle jerk to make us feel better? Retweets and upvotes aren’t going to save us.
If the post is trying to reach people and wake them up, then they are speaking to people who are not aware of the story you cited. To them it just seems like OP is lying and the post does nothing to help anything.
Protesting is legal.
If the police are shooting you in the face with teargas and dragging you away in handcuffs, it does not appear to be.
Either way, neither argument is the same as “no protests”.
On top of that you also get to own nothing.
Really wish people realized this 20 years ago when we actually had a chance to stop it.
Everyone sounding the alarms over the past two decades ago were ridiculed. Arguments seen as over reacting or a “my brand vs your brand” thing (really about the infrastructure and consumer rights).
That’s why people are going to jailbreak their cars. That’s why people are going to modify everything they own. That’s why brands will go bankrupt.
Some people certainly will, but I think the vast majority will simply accept it because at least they’re still getting their treats, even if they don’t actually own them anymore.
In a few decades… if we still can by then.
Look bud, do you want socialism or not? /s
Okay so public transportation is chill depending on where you are. Where I am this is the the full MBTA map because the commuter rail map shows the full map with all the lines.
The purple line once out of the zone of the orange, red, blue and green lines (silver are busses) the trips start to range in the 45 min to 3 hour range which means the trips are super long and we don’t have 220km/h trains we have 126km/h trains for outer city/long destinations and it’s not cheap either unless you have a reduced fare card and even then…
In the city though, the orange, red and green are the best and most reliable. The blue line is reliable it’s just drags out in feeling. The silver line busses work well they just suck a lot to use.
The commuter rail is a loud ass stainless steel looking, double decker with wifi that’s always on time but a fucking long ass wait and super inconvenient if you miss it plus there’s always one out, there’s always a delay, it never ends it fuckin sucks.
Is rather feel robbed for the price of gas per gallon than deal with the train ever again. Especially in the direction of o
ut of the city.
…so can we try the socialism now…?
Ask the republicans and centrists.
70% of Independents want universal health care, you don’t need to ask centrists, either.
90% of Ds want universal health care.
It’s not being stopped by 30% of the voters (Republicans… still, even 30% of them want universal healthcare).
The “pro-universal health care” side is fucking over their own constituents, as they are paid very well to do.
(reminder that independents are now 40% of the voters, Ds and Rs 30% each; these percentages are based on Pew but there are many polls pick your favorite)
Problem is America doesn’t really have a centrist party. Even America’s left, anywhere else in the world, would be right of center.
Not even capitalism right now, it’s full on fascism.
Fascism is the inevitable result of capitalism.
Fascism is the inevitable result of all government. Government is an accumulation of power, and it continues to accumulate power throughout its existence. Over the generations, it acquires more and more power exponentially.
Fascism is the inevitable result of all government. Government is an accumulation of power, and it continues to accumulate power throughout its existence. Over the generations, it acquires more and more power exponentially.
Every self serving entity desires to accumulate power. The same can be said of anything that serves itself and can last beyond a single generation. A family, a commune, a group of like minded individuals, a business or a corporation, etc.
The goal should be for the organization to serve it’s membership and for the organization’s membership to include everyone. Capitalism’s values and incentives are inherently self serving. Most capitalist “market theory” assumes, if not requires, self serving participants. Its an inherently self-destructive system.
Fascism is a form of capitalism, aka corpratism
Fascism is economically agnostic.
‘Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.’ - Benito Mussolini, a founder of fascism.
Corporations only exist within the capitalist model
So Stalin was a corporatist?
Mussolini was trying to push that particular economic agenda at the time he said that. He is generally credited with being the father of modern fascism, but Mussolini himself waffled between different economic policies as he rose to power and led Italy through WWII.
You can be a fascist and an oligarch, socialist, communist, capitalist, etc…
Lol, no, Stalin was the dictator, and authoritarian (like all states are). You’re mixing up facism and authoritarianism maybe?
I’m curious what you think fascism actually is.
Uhhh, that is some wild oversimplification
Like, we’re probably sharing the same sentiment all in all, but shut up
That’s exactly how Mussolini described it actually. Don’t believe me, read the wiki
Finally got my full bill for my no-insurance emergency “we have to do this or you die” surgery from a month ago. (At least I think that’s it - who knows if I’ll get more random “I was in the room for five minutes that’ll be $1000” bills)
$24,000. That’s after the self-pay discount from something like $300,000. I’m making around $2400 this month.
Hey hey! 29k just a month ago! I cried until I laughed because that’s absurd, I’ll literally never pay that off
My first plan is going to be trying to ask them for an itemized list of services I think. I think with medical debt you can also work out repayment on a much smaller scale because they know they other option is you being like “fuck it.”
You know that doesn’t meant it wouldn’t be happing under socialism too, right?
When you insist that it’s what is going to happen under every other system and it happens under yours too that ends up being that you didn’t make a fucking point at all.
You just wasted our fucking lives for decades over a warning that ended up happening under your system anyways.
At any fucking point if you wanna shut the fuck up, that would be fucking great.
Well, have you considered that perhaps these issues are simply a feature of government in general, regardless of ideology?
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
By arguing that if we’re going to have all of these problems, we might as well have socialism, all you’re really saying is “I want the same thing, but in blue”.
Communism you mean? Socialism isn’t a type of government. And yeah, the guy who made the list got it wrong too.
Sure, no one denies that but you’re missing the point. The point is that people in power claim that we can’t have socialism, because it would lead to the aforementioned problems, completely ignoring the fact that we have those problems under capitalism anyways.
Sure but is it a guarantee? Or do States fail no matter the system?
Name any state in history that has ever not failed at some point. There’s your answer.
And every product looks the same and has shitty quality
Whoever said that socialism meant “No healthcare” or “Unaffordable food and housing” was lying BIG time.
It was quite the opposite.In the US, but every european country seems to aspire to do the same
Completely lost on 95% of Americans.
No protests?
Get too loud and they will shut you down
Approved, permitted, non-violent, non-disruptive protests only.
Aka parades
God forbid you exercise your Second Amendment right and bring a gun to that protest to protect yourself. You’ll be shot dead before it ever leaves your holster just like Alex Pretti. An Intensive Care Unit nurse who was brutally murdered in our streets on camera by ICE. The man never reached for his gun but they shot him several times. Then proceeded to lie about circumstances before video evidence was revealed.
God forbid you exercise your Second Amendment right and bring a gun to that protest to protect yourself.
It’s a well known fact that you’re only allowed to exercise one right at a time.
(The number drops to zero if you’re not white.)
Do it as an individual, and yeah, but do it as a large group and very visible (like holding ARs), and I guarantee nobody gets gunned down & the police actually try to peacefully de-escalate any rise in tensions.
Yes, the hardcore american way of doing resistance with edgy signs.
A joke to the world
