Yeah, if you remove it from the context of it being trans-inclusive language it can certainly seem extreme. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s probably the most neutral way to open the conversation for “people who need menstrual products should have open access to them, regardless of their gender expression”. If, for instance, MN when it implemented its free menstrual products in schools program didn’t have access to this term, then they would’ve put the products in the women’s restroom only. Potentially causing unnecessary strife for the trans and non-binary boys who attend those schools. Leading to bad outcomes, up to and including the death (by murder or suicide) of the boy in question.
i mean 98% of all women menstruate. doesn’t seem like a malicious act when you consider that. it’s not exclusionary on purpose.
what strife is caused by someone walking into a restroom and grabbing a pad, exactly? most people don’t give a fuck. regardless of how they present themselves. most women would just shrug and continue about their day.
also if someone harms themself over that, I tend to think that menstrual products probably wasn’t the whole reason. and maybe they had other stuff going on. you know?
It’s more than 99%. Doesn’t change anything I said, nor should it.
Ask a man in your life to go into the women’s restroom to grab a paper towel. He will outright refuse. Logically, it’s just a paper towel and there should be no issue with him being in there. All of us men know, however, that the women’s restroom is a no-go space for men, regardless of the reason. Enforced by violence, if need be. It’s why anti-trans topics use men in the women’s as the social enforcement mechanism to keep trans women down and out of the public eye, even if the ultimate result of said laws and enforcement would be outwardly male people in the ladies’.
also if someone harms themself over that, I tend to think that menstrual products probably wasn’t the whole reason. and maybe they had other stuff going on. you know?
Yeah, like I don’t know, being trans and having their issues being treated as less than? This language won’t fix all of the issues with being trans, but it sure fucking signals to trans people that they’re being taken seriously, no? That they’re not being allowed to die solely because their existence isn’t similar enough to the rest of us to be convenient.
You wanna make a stink about the awkward language, be sure to only do so when it isn’t relevant to being trans (ie, someone using it as a replacement for women instead of using it inclusively). Outside of that, try to find another word to describe “not everyone who menstruates is a woman” that isn’t awkward as hell and I’ll be saying it right beside you. But sometimes things are just awkward and we need to embrace that to grow as a society. We don’t grow if we cover up all the awkward, you grow if you find a way to embrace it.
you seem to be making up worst case scenarios that end in violence breaking out. trust me when I say, most normal adults don’t care about any of that stuff and don’t think about restrooms beyond “I really need to pee.”
I’d believe that its mostly just convenience. even to most trans individuals who need those products.
you are making this out to be some warzone or something. “That they’re not being allowed to die solely because their existence isn’t similar enough to the rest of us to be convenient.”
buddy we are talking about pads. nobody who matters cares. and anyone that does care will probably just grimace about it and won’t remember 5 minutes later. I’m not going to call myself “an individual who menstruates” I’m gonna just say woman because I’m allowed to refer to myself how I choose to.
nobody is going to die dramatically because i didn’t use that exact phrase to refer to myself.
edit: also we should probably move to DMs and not clog up the comment section.
I keep bringing up violence because it’s not an outside possibility, not just for drama or to make my point seem stronger.
I’m not going to call myself “an individual who menstruates” I’m gonna just say woman because I’m allowed to refer to myself how I choose to.
Not what is being talked about. Talking about using it when relevant, so when talking about menstruation lato sensu (broadest sense), trans men need to be included in the conversation. Even if that makes it uncomfortable. If it isn’t relevant, then yeah you don’t need to use this term. That would be silly and defeat the whole point of the term. Legislation about menstruation, this term. You menstruating, use whatever you want.
buddy we are talking about pads. nobody who matters cares.
Bigots care bigly about a bunch of silly shit. Doesn’t change the fact that they tend to use violence (real or implied) to enforce their worldview on others. And most others won’t stop them cause they don’t want to rock the boat (or catch a stray)
I’ve seen many, many instances where my brother needed to ask my mom or aunt to get him pads out of the restroom because he was afraid of the people around him. Because the people in that place used threats to keep him out of the restroom he was supposed to use (again, before he transitioned). What you think is a minor inconvenience I’ve seen firsthand how it can threaten the safety of those I care about. So yeah, gonna treat the big deal as a big deal
There are some deeply held beliefs being debated here. Is the only way to demonstrate acceptance is belief in LGBTQ or non-belief in LGBTQ? Deep issues of faith on both sides.
Yeah, if you remove it from the context of it being trans-inclusive language it can certainly seem extreme. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s probably the most neutral way to open the conversation for “people who need menstrual products should have open access to them, regardless of their gender expression”. If, for instance, MN when it implemented its free menstrual products in schools program didn’t have access to this term, then they would’ve put the products in the women’s restroom only. Potentially causing unnecessary strife for the trans and non-binary boys who attend those schools. Leading to bad outcomes, up to and including the death (by murder or suicide) of the boy in question.
i mean 98% of all women menstruate. doesn’t seem like a malicious act when you consider that. it’s not exclusionary on purpose.
what strife is caused by someone walking into a restroom and grabbing a pad, exactly? most people don’t give a fuck. regardless of how they present themselves. most women would just shrug and continue about their day.
also if someone harms themself over that, I tend to think that menstrual products probably wasn’t the whole reason. and maybe they had other stuff going on. you know?
It’s more than 99%. Doesn’t change anything I said, nor should it.
Ask a man in your life to go into the women’s restroom to grab a paper towel. He will outright refuse. Logically, it’s just a paper towel and there should be no issue with him being in there. All of us men know, however, that the women’s restroom is a no-go space for men, regardless of the reason. Enforced by violence, if need be. It’s why anti-trans topics use men in the women’s as the social enforcement mechanism to keep trans women down and out of the public eye, even if the ultimate result of said laws and enforcement would be outwardly male people in the ladies’.
Yeah, like I don’t know, being trans and having their issues being treated as less than? This language won’t fix all of the issues with being trans, but it sure fucking signals to trans people that they’re being taken seriously, no? That they’re not being allowed to die solely because their existence isn’t similar enough to the rest of us to be convenient.
You wanna make a stink about the awkward language, be sure to only do so when it isn’t relevant to being trans (ie, someone using it as a replacement for women instead of using it inclusively). Outside of that, try to find another word to describe “not everyone who menstruates is a woman” that isn’t awkward as hell and I’ll be saying it right beside you. But sometimes things are just awkward and we need to embrace that to grow as a society. We don’t grow if we cover up all the awkward, you grow if you find a way to embrace it.
you seem to be making up worst case scenarios that end in violence breaking out. trust me when I say, most normal adults don’t care about any of that stuff and don’t think about restrooms beyond “I really need to pee.”
I’d believe that its mostly just convenience. even to most trans individuals who need those products.
you are making this out to be some warzone or something. “That they’re not being allowed to die solely because their existence isn’t similar enough to the rest of us to be convenient.”
buddy we are talking about pads. nobody who matters cares. and anyone that does care will probably just grimace about it and won’t remember 5 minutes later. I’m not going to call myself “an individual who menstruates” I’m gonna just say woman because I’m allowed to refer to myself how I choose to.
nobody is going to die dramatically because i didn’t use that exact phrase to refer to myself.
edit: also we should probably move to DMs and not clog up the comment section.
I keep bringing up violence because it’s not an outside possibility, not just for drama or to make my point seem stronger.
Not what is being talked about. Talking about using it when relevant, so when talking about menstruation lato sensu (broadest sense), trans men need to be included in the conversation. Even if that makes it uncomfortable. If it isn’t relevant, then yeah you don’t need to use this term. That would be silly and defeat the whole point of the term. Legislation about menstruation, this term. You menstruating, use whatever you want.
Bigots care bigly about a bunch of silly shit. Doesn’t change the fact that they tend to use violence (real or implied) to enforce their worldview on others. And most others won’t stop them cause they don’t want to rock the boat (or catch a stray)
I’ve seen many, many instances where my brother needed to ask my mom or aunt to get him pads out of the restroom because he was afraid of the people around him. Because the people in that place used threats to keep him out of the restroom he was supposed to use (again, before he transitioned). What you think is a minor inconvenience I’ve seen firsthand how it can threaten the safety of those I care about. So yeah, gonna treat the big deal as a big deal
There are some deeply held beliefs being debated here. Is the only way to demonstrate acceptance is belief in LGBTQ or non-belief in LGBTQ? Deep issues of faith on both sides.
I’m sorry, I can’t parse this at all. What are you trying to ask or say here?