• Tinidril@midwest.social
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    2 years ago

    It’s tough to be critical of “liberalism” when everyone has a different idea of what it means. It might help to specify “economic liberalism”.

    Along with it’s deep flaws, Liberalism is also associated with things like the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, LGBT+ rights, etc. Conservatives also muddy the waters by blaming these things for economic hardship.

    • davel@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Liberalism has a definition, which Marxists have never forgotten, though thanks to two red scares and a cold war, others have forgotten. Now in Orwellian fashion, “liberalism” and “socialism” are floating signifiers, so we have liberals like Sanders calling themselves socialists despite never calling for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production.

      Slavery did end under liberalism, but then again liberalism started it.

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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        2 years ago

        Lol I’m sure Prolewiki is an unbiased source that the majority of people would agree with on the definitions of words. /s

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          2 years ago

          It’s basically just “classical liberalism and neoliberalism”, and whether politically illiterate Americans use that word that way doesn’t matter very much from an analytical standpoint, because in political science, history, philosophy, and even just popular discourse in most other countries, the term “liberal” mainly has that meaning.

          • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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            2 years ago

            Oxford Dictionary:

            lib·er·al

            /ˈlib(ə)rəl/

            adjective

            willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.

            relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise. Similar: tolerant, unprejudiced, unbigoted, broad-minded, open-minded, enlightened, forbearing, permissive, free, free and easy, easygoing, laissez-faire, libertarian, latitudinarian, unbiased, impartial, nonpartisan, indulgent, lenient, lax, soft

            noun

            a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare. “she dissented from the decision, joined by the court’s liberals”

            a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

            Opposite: narrow-minded, bigoted,


            You are free to argue with dictionaries, but if your enemy is liberalism as defined by civil rights, democracy, and welfare then you are the enemy of all people, in my eyes.

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              2 years ago

              If one is trying to define liberalism against feudalism, that definition is fine, but it’s just redditor sophomorism to act like a dictionary is a replacement for an actual historical or academic definition of a political tendency.

              • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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                2 years ago

                Take it up with oxford, Words mean what the majority believes they currently mean. Anything else is just some shit somebody made up. This discussion is about the current meaning of Liberalism in today’s political context.

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  2 years ago

                  Take it up with oxford

                  My point is that you are misusing the dictionary as a replacement for actually knowing about a subject. People still call John Locke a liberal, and they do it because fields have definitions that aren’t colloquial.

                  This discussion is about the current meaning of Liberalism in today’s political context.

                  Look anywhere outside of America and it readily refers to sniveling market-fetishists. In America it only implicitly does because everyone is a market fetishist.

                  • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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                    2 years ago

                    How dare I “missuse” dictionaries to “define words” which contradict your “alternative facts.”

                    and FYI, Oxford is British.