Let’s say I’m in the market for a used EV and I’m trying to decide between two cars and they both report 90% capacity remaining. How should I choose if longevity is a priority? Should I go by mileage or should I look at charge cycles used?
At that point I would definitely look at the mileage. You also need to consider the wear/tear on the suspension, transmission, brakes, steering, etc. I’ve seen far too many people put off regular suspension maintenance leading to other complications later on down the line. If a worn suspension can fuck up motor mounts and tie rod ends, I’d imagine they can rattle those battery packs as well. So I wouldn’t think of mileage so much as the “age” of a car so much as it’s “experience”. Much like how we measure the “age” of aircraft in flight hours. More flight hours = more stress on the frame.
So yeah, more getting to the actual spirit of your inquiry; mileage is gonna matter more to longevity for the vehicle as a whole over charge cycles. On top of that, the battery on the higher mileage vehicle is at higher risk of some form of mechanical failure despite same capacity/lower number of charge cycles.
If the power isn’t transmitted from the motor to the motee (wheels), there’s not going to be motion.
A less confusing term used for the unit between a motor and a differential in an EV is reduction gear. But all the moving parts and their supports, the power transmission, is a point of wear worth considering.
Point taken about other components being the limiting factor. My only point is that if two cars have similar miles/kwh but vastly different ranges, they could both end up showing 90% with 150,000 miles but the car that did that with the smaller range is much more impressive.
You should go by warranty remaining on battery. Either one of those could develop a dead cell tomorrow, or they could last 20 more years with no worries. Battery aging is unpredictable on the level of an individual battery pack, you can only predict averages of large fleets. When I used to refurb Macs, I saw failed (swollen or low capacity and about to start swelling soon) batteries with <100 charge cycles and completely fine batteries with 2500 charge count and of course everything in between. 1000 was the expected lifetime per Apple.
EV battery warranty is usually 8 years, most EVs get dumped way before that because nobody wants to take the risk of owning a very expensive paperweight if the battery fails after the warranty is over. Though there are stories of scumbag manufacturers saying the warranty won’t cover more than the value of the car, so you might not even get a new battery fully covered by the battery warranty, as the battery can be more expensive than the car.
Reputable dealers will also sell used cars with their own warranties and then there’s CPO cars from the main dealers.
Yeah, you use energy driving the car, so in turn you would need to charge it. Now there will be a difference if you charged only on fast chargers vs like at home on a level 2 since faster charging degrades the batteries more.
Why do we buy ICE cars based on distance driven and not total engine revolutions?
Because both are dumb and distance is a reasonable proxy for usage level. Almost regardless of the specific kwh/km efficiency, an EV that has driven distance X has had Y cycles within a range of values that aren’t different enough to matter.
Well if we were measuring only engine wear, total revolutions would perhaps be more useful than distance driven, but we usually buy an entire car, and the suspension wears the same regardless of whether you’re gunning down main street in first gear or fourth, as does the driver’s seat, as do most things other than the drivetrain.
If we’re only measuring gradual battery wear, which this article is about, charge cycles and fast charger usage matter a ton more than when buying a used EV. Not all charging is equal and smart enough battery management systems know this, I would hope they increase cycle count faster when needed.
At the end of the day none of it matters anyway. Degradation isn’t really an issue for new EV batteries. Worst case scenario you’re stuck with like 90% of the initial capacity after 10 years, boo hoo. The unsolved issue is bad cells which can develop after one charge cycle or after two thousand charge cycles and there’s no way to predict them as of yet. They also take down the entire pack until changed, though individual cells can be replaced by qualified technicians outside of dealerships (dealerships will never do it for you).
i’ve been eyeing for an ev car to replace my current ice for couple years now. sure you can charge ev relatively easy these days IF youre living in a city. I dont live in an advanced country, and i like to road trip to remote places. when i look into the charging infrastructure in those remote places i’d be stranded and my car would be useless. currently im still not willing to give up one of my escapades even if i only do it once or twice a year and no matter how much gas fuel i’d save im still not willing to dive into an ev right now. maybe when solid state become a thing but until then alas… currently im in no mood for betting whichever come first, the infrastructure of the tech
Why is distance travelled being used as a metric for batteries? Shouldn’t it be charge cycles like phones have been using forever?
Because that’s generally how people measure a car’s age.
Ok but is it a good way to measure the lifespan of an EV?
Because it’s one people are used to and can understand.
It’s also independent of any diagnostics that the manufacturer provides and will lie about to make their cars seem better
Let’s say I’m in the market for a used EV and I’m trying to decide between two cars and they both report 90% capacity remaining. How should I choose if longevity is a priority? Should I go by mileage or should I look at charge cycles used?
At that point I would definitely look at the mileage. You also need to consider the wear/tear on the suspension, transmission, brakes, steering, etc. I’ve seen far too many people put off regular suspension maintenance leading to other complications later on down the line. If a worn suspension can fuck up motor mounts and tie rod ends, I’d imagine they can rattle those battery packs as well. So I wouldn’t think of mileage so much as the “age” of a car so much as it’s “experience”. Much like how we measure the “age” of aircraft in flight hours. More flight hours = more stress on the frame.
So yeah, more getting to the actual spirit of your inquiry; mileage is gonna matter more to longevity for the vehicle as a whole over charge cycles. On top of that, the battery on the higher mileage vehicle is at higher risk of some form of mechanical failure despite same capacity/lower number of charge cycles.
Do EVs have a transmission?
If the power isn’t transmitted from the motor to the motee (wheels), there’s not going to be motion.
A less confusing term used for the unit between a motor and a differential in an EV is reduction gear. But all the moving parts and their supports, the power transmission, is a point of wear worth considering.
Yes. Sure, usually not like a traditional ICE transmission with multiple gears, but still a transmission.
Point taken about other components being the limiting factor. My only point is that if two cars have similar miles/kwh but vastly different ranges, they could both end up showing 90% with 150,000 miles but the car that did that with the smaller range is much more impressive.
You should go by warranty remaining on battery. Either one of those could develop a dead cell tomorrow, or they could last 20 more years with no worries. Battery aging is unpredictable on the level of an individual battery pack, you can only predict averages of large fleets. When I used to refurb Macs, I saw failed (swollen or low capacity and about to start swelling soon) batteries with <100 charge cycles and completely fine batteries with 2500 charge count and of course everything in between. 1000 was the expected lifetime per Apple.
in what world do used cars have warranties?
EV battery warranty is usually 8 years, most EVs get dumped way before that because nobody wants to take the risk of owning a very expensive paperweight if the battery fails after the warranty is over. Though there are stories of scumbag manufacturers saying the warranty won’t cover more than the value of the car, so you might not even get a new battery fully covered by the battery warranty, as the battery can be more expensive than the car.
Reputable dealers will also sell used cars with their own warranties and then there’s CPO cars from the main dealers.
I wouldn’t trust the internal diagnostics because car makers have an incentive to lie.
Other components wear with the mileage so I’d look at that.
Yeah, you use energy driving the car, so in turn you would need to charge it. Now there will be a difference if you charged only on fast chargers vs like at home on a level 2 since faster charging degrades the batteries more.
Why do we buy ICE cars based on distance driven and not total engine revolutions?
Because both are dumb and distance is a reasonable proxy for usage level. Almost regardless of the specific kwh/km efficiency, an EV that has driven distance X has had Y cycles within a range of values that aren’t different enough to matter.
Well if we were measuring only engine wear, total revolutions would perhaps be more useful than distance driven, but we usually buy an entire car, and the suspension wears the same regardless of whether you’re gunning down main street in first gear or fourth, as does the driver’s seat, as do most things other than the drivetrain.
If we’re only measuring gradual battery wear, which this article is about, charge cycles and fast charger usage matter a ton more than when buying a used EV. Not all charging is equal and smart enough battery management systems know this, I would hope they increase cycle count faster when needed.
At the end of the day none of it matters anyway. Degradation isn’t really an issue for new EV batteries. Worst case scenario you’re stuck with like 90% of the initial capacity after 10 years, boo hoo. The unsolved issue is bad cells which can develop after one charge cycle or after two thousand charge cycles and there’s no way to predict them as of yet. They also take down the entire pack until changed, though individual cells can be replaced by qualified technicians outside of dealerships (dealerships will never do it for you).
Because nobody is recording charge cycles and also from average efficiency data you can extrapolate estimated charge cycles close enough
i’ve been eyeing for an ev car to replace my current ice for couple years now. sure you can charge ev relatively easy these days IF youre living in a city. I dont live in an advanced country, and i like to road trip to remote places. when i look into the charging infrastructure in those remote places i’d be stranded and my car would be useless. currently im still not willing to give up one of my escapades even if i only do it once or twice a year and no matter how much gas fuel i’d save im still not willing to dive into an ev right now. maybe when solid state become a thing but until then alas… currently im in no mood for betting whichever come first, the infrastructure of the tech