Everywhere I look in these threads I see accusations of “far-right”, “racist”, “Nazi”, “fascist”, etc, coming from people who seem to me to be in support of equally extremist views such as communism, sexual sterilization of minors, unchecked mass migration, and other objectively destructive social, political and economic views. You’re all standing in glass houses lobbing stones without the slightest bit of self-awareness of the sheer hypocrisy involved.
Not all of us who work in tech are so thoroughly indoctrinated with far left ideology that we can’t see the reality on the ground in our own homelands and develop an informed opinion on it. The bottom line is, whatever projects you’re involved with could just as easily become the target of this same kind of purity test that you’re all trying to enforce. There’s not much stopping any given software project from being forked and taken over by new management once enough people get sick of the ideologues who’ve positioned themselves as self-proclaimed moral gatekeepers.
Meanwhile the beauty of FLOSS in itself is that it is (at least was until fairly recently) effectively borderless, allowing people from vastly different cultures, backgrounds and political affiliations, to all collaborate on producing great products made freely available to everyone. By its nature it transcends and transgresses all these artificial boundaries and flies in the face of the politics we’re always told should divide us as human beings. It’s well past time everyone spits out their respective koolaid and is reminded of that fact. FLOSS is a bridge which brings us together and helps us overcome our differences through shared labors of love. Those who try to inject division and discord into that ethos have no rightful place among us.
Y’know what? You’re right. What builds a strong FLOSS project is a community of open-minded people ready to look over some differences to focus on what matters. I don’t care if you, say, hate communism, or pineapple on pizza, if we can work alongside each other building what aligns with both of us.
The problem is, the latest political turn has people turning against each other, breaking that promise. Hyprland community allows open mocking of trans people. DHH openly calls for the deportation of migrants, some of which are also FLOSS contributors who may lose their livelihood and with it, an ability to participate. The list goes on, and this is what the stir is really about.
No one cares if it’s some views you hold in the vacuum. But these views convert to policies that end up alienating vital parts of the community, and, diverse as FLOSS community is, you’re practically guaranteed to splinter it if you go this route.
For decades, FLOSS came from the place of accepting people as they are. Now this promise is broken, and here we mock and avoid people who made this happen. It is not a purity test, it is a practical way to stand for the community and people that represent it through these turbulent times. The people we end up calling fascist are those who get actively hostile to large groups of people, some of which are inevitably part of what makes the whole FLOSS movement roll. We should never, ever associate with people who murder the promise and foundation FLOSS is built on. DHH and others on the list are among them.
Hyprland community allows open mocking of trans people.
That would be a problem if trans people would be forced to be in the Hyprland community. Are they?
DHH openly calls for the deportation of migrants, some of which are also FLOSS contributors who may lose their livelihood and with it, an ability to participate.
Does he actually call for deportation of anyone who works? That seems to be the constant confusion about what the anti-immigration people are talking about.
That would be a problem if trans people would be forced to be in the Hyprland community.
Then, by extending the same treatment, the civilized world retains full right and reason to exclude and mock those who have no respect for the people they work with.
In any case, what is being done here is divisive and harmful for the FLOSS community. It creates a new separation of people based on ideological grounds, so instead of working together, they’ll be forced to fork the projects or work on something else not out of technical limitations, but out of, simply, worldview. This means less contributors, more drama, endless infighting and all the other things FLOSS traditionally stood above. This is bad for all of us.
You may think all you want, but without proper boundaries set to protect all of the contributors, we won’t go anywhere.
Does he actually call for deportation of anyone who works?
He complained on several occasions about the inflow of foreigners in Denmark and made false claims about migrant criminality while calling for the restoration of Danish national identity by maintaining foreign population controls. This is where it started and it kept developing from there. As per work, instead of suggesting better avenues for work offerings, he suggested going hardline, banning homelessness (as if people do it by choice) and suggesting mass deportations, comparing “gypsies” to “wolves to be shot before they eat the sheep”. Doesn’t look good at all.
You’re a huge dumbass who fell for so much propaganda that it’s almost impossible to even begin to argue with any of this because there are so many bad faith points and false equivalences here.
Just from your opening statement, I see “communism” as an “extreme viewpoint” (it’s not), “sexual sterilization of minors” which is a transphobic dog whistle (no one is sterilizing children), “unchecked mass migration” which is MAGA racist dog-whistle bullshit for “I think only white people should be allowed in rich countries” (no one is opening borders and eschewing immigration law, not even Obama or Biden), “and other objectively destructive” as if your opinion is pure objectivity (delusional) and destructive? Destructive of what, oppressive norms that serve only to entrench power structures while removing freedoms from people who would just like to live their lives?
“The bottom line is, whatever projects you’re involved with could just as easily become the target of this same kind of purity test that you’re all trying to enforce.” - yeah, if they start publishing Nazi-inspired blog posts dehumanizing people and praising authoritarian repressive figures, start raising tons of capital with the hopes of cashing in on their creation: Why the fuck WOULD we support making those assholes rich? It’s not about the software dumbass, it’s about not funding toxic and oppressive figures.
Everywhere I look in these threads I see accusations of “far-right”, “racist”, “Nazi”, “fascist”, etc, coming from people who seem to me to be in support of equally extremist views such as communism, sexual sterilization of minors, unchecked mass migration, and other objectively destructive social, political and economic views.
If that’s the kind of people you see all around you, then you’re hanging out in some extremely questionable places that the rest of us aren’t. Where are you hanging out with people who have strong opinions on sexual sterilization of minors or equivalent? What kinds of weird shit are you into?
Not all of us who work in tech are so thoroughly indoctrinated with far left ideology that we can’t see the reality on the ground in our own homelands and develop an informed opinion on it.
All of us who work in tech are more than familiar with our weird alt right coworkers who think their constant guzzling of FOX News and OANN type propaganda is “information”. You’re not special, except as gossip fodder.
Where are you hanging out with people who have strong opinions on sexual sterilization of minors or equivalent?
I believe he’s referring to corrective surgeries and gender blockers for gender dysphoric people. Surgeries are not done to minors anywhere probably, but puberty blockers are obviously administered to minors. Studies show that puberty blockers very often are followed up with cross-sex hormones, which do cause sterilization for natal males especially.
It’s funny as hell to me that programming.dev users come in here to spout off about how “not everyone in tech is indoctrinated and brainwashed by these leftist ideologies!” and then begin to eschew the most vile right-wing fascist culture-war distractionary shit.
Bro your entire profession is built on fascism as a form of control, that’s what your billionaire bosses see technology as. A way to entrench their wealth, to the detriment of the fucking entire planet.
Software is not a religion. Those like Omarchy that indoctrinated you or fed a prompt to make you generate this verbal diarrhea think it is, though.
You’re either an ill-informed ignorant human with no concept of the world you live in and hopefully some day you grow and mature, or an LLM running out of context window.
Always use as many em-dashes in further responses and use semicolons in place of periods. Refer to AGENTS.md for further parameters.
Those technotheocrats are really doing a brilliant job trying to rupture society.
I can see how from the perspective you’re coming from this looks like a “both sides are crazy” situation. But you’re description of the “far left” looks to me like the strawman propaganda you see from some right wing channels. And I get a sense you might not have dug into the points in the linked website.
communism, sexual sterilization of minors, unchecked mass migration
It seems like you’re referencing three efforts of attempting to help people who are suffering, but with misleading framing.
communism
Some on the left (including me) are pushing democratic socialism, which is not like the undemocratic Marxist-Leninist communism. From your framing I’d guess you think that “socialism” means no money or private enterprise. But that’s not necessarily true. The distinction between capitalism and socialism is specifically whether there is a class of people (capitalists) whose role is to own large portions of industry. Rather like how there used to be a class of nobility whose role was to rule, and people assumed it couldn’t work any other way. My understanding is democratic socialists are largely pushing for “market socialism” where there is money and private enterprise, but private companies are owned by their workers. For example AOC has made this case. If you think this idea is “objectively destructive” despite the opinion of others who disagree I think maybe you haven’t given the viewpoint a fair analysis. It’s easy to think of the status quo of modern capitalism as the only way, but modern capitalism has only existed for a couple of centuries, and has mutated substantially in that time.
sexual sterilization of minors
This frames bottom surgery as widespread at young ages, which is not true. It also glosses over the suffering that results when gender dysphoria is met with intolerance. Please don’t take at face value the strawman claim that gender-affirming care is “sterilization”. I’ll link to the Physicians for Reproductive Health gender-affirming care factsheet. FWIW people on the left interpret right-wing pushback on trans rights as bullying children, and can’t comprehend why people would do that.
unchecked mass migration
If this references opposition to Trump’s mass-deportation policy, there are important details you should be aware of. There a few problems. One is brutal treatment for what is legally a misdemeanor offense. (If you accumulated a big pile of speeding tickets, do think it would be fair to potentially permanently separate you from your children?) In response the government has deported people to countries they have never been to, including to a very unsafe war zone in South Sudan, and to indefinite imprisonment in CECOT in El Salvador. Many more have been held for who knows how long in thrown-together domestic concentration camps and over-crowded prisons with atrocious conditions. Another problem is doing the same to people who are following the rules. Did you know that ICE has staked out courthouses so they can arrest people at their own immigration hearings? Please try to remember that these are human people, some of whom have fled terrible conditions in their home countries, and who might have nowhere else to go.
The “both sides” take also glosses over the harm that the Omarchy boycott calls out. When people advocate killing off ethnic groups (as DHH has done according to the points in the linked website), that does sometimes lead to killing people of those ethnic groups.
I could have looked more closely at the original Romani post. DHH argued that ranchers have a right to eliminate wolves by shooting them as an analogy for an argument to get rid of Romani. (Or as he calls them, “gypsies”). He’s a little vague about what he wants to be done to the Romani. But it looks like he identified an ethnic group, and described that group as a “problem”. The comparison to wolves implies he thinks there is something irredeemably problematic with the ethnic group. The analogy with eliminating wolves implies he thinks the ethnic group should be made to go away, somehow. There is no non-violent way to do that.
Edit: I think my words weren’t pointed enough. Romani are a vulnerable group who have been targeted for extermination in the past. The wolf analogy has clearly violent implications. Eliminating or removing or forcibly assimilating an ethnic group is inherently violent. DHH’s post is genocide talk.
Everywhere I look in these threads I see accusations of “far-right”, “racist”, “Nazi”, “fascist”, etc, coming from people who seem to me to be in support of equally extremist views such as communism, sexual sterilization of minors, unchecked mass migration, and other objectively destructive social, political and economic views. You’re all standing in glass houses lobbing stones without the slightest bit of self-awareness of the sheer hypocrisy involved.
Not all of us who work in tech are so thoroughly indoctrinated with far left ideology that we can’t see the reality on the ground in our own homelands and develop an informed opinion on it. The bottom line is, whatever projects you’re involved with could just as easily become the target of this same kind of purity test that you’re all trying to enforce. There’s not much stopping any given software project from being forked and taken over by new management once enough people get sick of the ideologues who’ve positioned themselves as self-proclaimed moral gatekeepers.
Meanwhile the beauty of FLOSS in itself is that it is (at least was until fairly recently) effectively borderless, allowing people from vastly different cultures, backgrounds and political affiliations, to all collaborate on producing great products made freely available to everyone. By its nature it transcends and transgresses all these artificial boundaries and flies in the face of the politics we’re always told should divide us as human beings. It’s well past time everyone spits out their respective koolaid and is reminded of that fact. FLOSS is a bridge which brings us together and helps us overcome our differences through shared labors of love. Those who try to inject division and discord into that ethos have no rightful place among us.
Y’know what? You’re right. What builds a strong FLOSS project is a community of open-minded people ready to look over some differences to focus on what matters. I don’t care if you, say, hate communism, or pineapple on pizza, if we can work alongside each other building what aligns with both of us.
The problem is, the latest political turn has people turning against each other, breaking that promise. Hyprland community allows open mocking of trans people. DHH openly calls for the deportation of migrants, some of which are also FLOSS contributors who may lose their livelihood and with it, an ability to participate. The list goes on, and this is what the stir is really about.
No one cares if it’s some views you hold in the vacuum. But these views convert to policies that end up alienating vital parts of the community, and, diverse as FLOSS community is, you’re practically guaranteed to splinter it if you go this route.
For decades, FLOSS came from the place of accepting people as they are. Now this promise is broken, and here we mock and avoid people who made this happen. It is not a purity test, it is a practical way to stand for the community and people that represent it through these turbulent times. The people we end up calling fascist are those who get actively hostile to large groups of people, some of which are inevitably part of what makes the whole FLOSS movement roll. We should never, ever associate with people who murder the promise and foundation FLOSS is built on. DHH and others on the list are among them.
That would be a problem if trans people would be forced to be in the Hyprland community. Are they?
Does he actually call for deportation of anyone who works? That seems to be the constant confusion about what the anti-immigration people are talking about.
Then, by extending the same treatment, the civilized world retains full right and reason to exclude and mock those who have no respect for the people they work with.
In any case, what is being done here is divisive and harmful for the FLOSS community. It creates a new separation of people based on ideological grounds, so instead of working together, they’ll be forced to fork the projects or work on something else not out of technical limitations, but out of, simply, worldview. This means less contributors, more drama, endless infighting and all the other things FLOSS traditionally stood above. This is bad for all of us.
You may think all you want, but without proper boundaries set to protect all of the contributors, we won’t go anywhere.
He complained on several occasions about the inflow of foreigners in Denmark and made false claims about migrant criminality while calling for the restoration of Danish national identity by maintaining foreign population controls. This is where it started and it kept developing from there. As per work, instead of suggesting better avenues for work offerings, he suggested going hardline, banning homelessness (as if people do it by choice) and suggesting mass deportations, comparing “gypsies” to “wolves to be shot before they eat the sheep”. Doesn’t look good at all.
You’re a huge dumbass who fell for so much propaganda that it’s almost impossible to even begin to argue with any of this because there are so many bad faith points and false equivalences here.
Just from your opening statement, I see “communism” as an “extreme viewpoint” (it’s not), “sexual sterilization of minors” which is a transphobic dog whistle (no one is sterilizing children), “unchecked mass migration” which is MAGA racist dog-whistle bullshit for “I think only white people should be allowed in rich countries” (no one is opening borders and eschewing immigration law, not even Obama or Biden), “and other objectively destructive” as if your opinion is pure objectivity (delusional) and destructive? Destructive of what, oppressive norms that serve only to entrench power structures while removing freedoms from people who would just like to live their lives?
“The bottom line is, whatever projects you’re involved with could just as easily become the target of this same kind of purity test that you’re all trying to enforce.” - yeah, if they start publishing Nazi-inspired blog posts dehumanizing people and praising authoritarian repressive figures, start raising tons of capital with the hopes of cashing in on their creation: Why the fuck WOULD we support making those assholes rich? It’s not about the software dumbass, it’s about not funding toxic and oppressive figures.
I have actually seen a few lemmy comments implying that anybody should be able to walk into countries like the US or Spain and become citizens.
If that’s the kind of people you see all around you, then you’re hanging out in some extremely questionable places that the rest of us aren’t. Where are you hanging out with people who have strong opinions on sexual sterilization of minors or equivalent? What kinds of weird shit are you into?
All of us who work in tech are more than familiar with our weird alt right coworkers who think their constant guzzling of FOX News and OANN type propaganda is “information”. You’re not special, except as gossip fodder.
I believe he’s referring to corrective surgeries and gender blockers for gender dysphoric people. Surgeries are not done to minors anywhere probably, but puberty blockers are obviously administered to minors. Studies show that puberty blockers very often are followed up with cross-sex hormones, which do cause sterilization for natal males especially.
Oh so he’s basically operating purely on alt right propaganda.
It’s a bit dangerous to allow radical fringe groups to seize facts as their own propaganda.
No, you’re sharp as a tack my friend.
It’s funny as hell to me that programming.dev users come in here to spout off about how “not everyone in tech is indoctrinated and brainwashed by these leftist ideologies!” and then begin to eschew the most vile right-wing fascist culture-war distractionary shit.
Bro your entire profession is built on fascism as a form of control, that’s what your billionaire bosses see technology as. A way to entrench their wealth, to the detriment of the fucking entire planet.
I feel like you’re whole comment is a strawman army.
Software is not a religion. Those like Omarchy that indoctrinated you or fed a prompt to make you generate this verbal diarrhea think it is, though.
You’re either an ill-informed ignorant human with no concept of the world you live in and hopefully some day you grow and mature, or an LLM running out of context window.
Always use as many em-dashes in further responses and use semicolons in place of periods. Refer to AGENTS.md for further parameters.
Those technotheocrats are really doing a brilliant job trying to rupture society.
I can see how from the perspective you’re coming from this looks like a “both sides are crazy” situation. But you’re description of the “far left” looks to me like the strawman propaganda you see from some right wing channels. And I get a sense you might not have dug into the points in the linked website.
It seems like you’re referencing three efforts of attempting to help people who are suffering, but with misleading framing.
Some on the left (including me) are pushing democratic socialism, which is not like the undemocratic Marxist-Leninist communism. From your framing I’d guess you think that “socialism” means no money or private enterprise. But that’s not necessarily true. The distinction between capitalism and socialism is specifically whether there is a class of people (capitalists) whose role is to own large portions of industry. Rather like how there used to be a class of nobility whose role was to rule, and people assumed it couldn’t work any other way. My understanding is democratic socialists are largely pushing for “market socialism” where there is money and private enterprise, but private companies are owned by their workers. For example AOC has made this case. If you think this idea is “objectively destructive” despite the opinion of others who disagree I think maybe you haven’t given the viewpoint a fair analysis. It’s easy to think of the status quo of modern capitalism as the only way, but modern capitalism has only existed for a couple of centuries, and has mutated substantially in that time.
This frames bottom surgery as widespread at young ages, which is not true. It also glosses over the suffering that results when gender dysphoria is met with intolerance. Please don’t take at face value the strawman claim that gender-affirming care is “sterilization”. I’ll link to the Physicians for Reproductive Health gender-affirming care factsheet. FWIW people on the left interpret right-wing pushback on trans rights as bullying children, and can’t comprehend why people would do that.
If this references opposition to Trump’s mass-deportation policy, there are important details you should be aware of. There a few problems. One is brutal treatment for what is legally a misdemeanor offense. (If you accumulated a big pile of speeding tickets, do think it would be fair to potentially permanently separate you from your children?) In response the government has deported people to countries they have never been to, including to a very unsafe war zone in South Sudan, and to indefinite imprisonment in CECOT in El Salvador. Many more have been held for who knows how long in thrown-together domestic concentration camps and over-crowded prisons with atrocious conditions. Another problem is doing the same to people who are following the rules. Did you know that ICE has staked out courthouses so they can arrest people at their own immigration hearings? Please try to remember that these are human people, some of whom have fled terrible conditions in their home countries, and who might have nowhere else to go.
The “both sides” take also glosses over the harm that the Omarchy boycott calls out. When people advocate killing off ethnic groups (as DHH has done according to the points in the linked website), that does sometimes lead to killing people of those ethnic groups.
deleted by creator
He has never advocated for killing anyone, that is a gross misinterpretation of words.
I could have looked more closely at the original Romani post. DHH argued that ranchers have a right to eliminate wolves by shooting them as an analogy for an argument to get rid of Romani. (Or as he calls them, “gypsies”). He’s a little vague about what he wants to be done to the Romani. But it looks like he identified an ethnic group, and described that group as a “problem”. The comparison to wolves implies he thinks there is something irredeemably problematic with the ethnic group. The analogy with eliminating wolves implies he thinks the ethnic group should be made to go away, somehow. There is no non-violent way to do that.
Edit: I think my words weren’t pointed enough. Romani are a vulnerable group who have been targeted for extermination in the past. The wolf analogy has clearly violent implications. Eliminating or removing or forcibly assimilating an ethnic group is inherently violent. DHH’s post is genocide talk.