The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Well, I appreciate the complement, but I do want to point out that the longer you hold onto the idea that we can vote for a better world in a system designed to keep imperialism running for as long as possible, the longer you’ll be walking around with your hands tied doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Unlikely but nice try anyways and your arguments are coherent and civil so I appreciate that. Your argument and debate skills are great too.
My belief is a smaller, more progressive one. Not saying violent revolution is off the table, but I don’t think we’re anywhere near it.
Well, I appreciate the complement, but I do want to point out that the longer you hold onto the idea that we can vote for a better world in a system designed to keep imperialism running for as long as possible, the longer you’ll be walking around with your hands tied doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do.
Here’s an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list if you ever want to start reading theory.
Better give the USA back to the British Crown then, dumb-ass.
No, they aren’t.
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
Just wondering which country are you from?
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
Unless that compromise is “don’t commit genocide”, then they’ll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
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How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
Public database of rich people spending money on disinformation tactics: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview
Where do you get that idea?
Answer the question, genocide denier. How did you quantify 10x times? Or 1000x?
No, it’s exactly Democrat political ideology.
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