Weak attempt at obfuscation. Nobody thinks “critical thinkers” are russian trolls; quite the opposite.
Oh, some (very few, IMHO) people will definitely call others “Russian Troll” or equivalent if they point out that Russian interference has far less power than the very much local ultra-rich, politicians and News-media owners when it comes to the current state of most Western nations and that it’s more likely that loudly raging about “foreign interference” is a political propaganda tool of mainstream politicians - a scapegoat for the consequences of the pillaging of the West by ultra-wealthy Westerns (paralleling how “immigrants” are similarly used as scapegoats by other mainstream politicians - they’re both very much “blame foreigners”) that said politicians very much supported and still support.
Also, don’t get me started on how the interference of other nations is much larger and more open - for example both main parties in the US and UK openly have groups amongst their “parliamentarians” who are “Friends of Israel”.
Russia almost certainly interfered or tried to, because it makes sense for them to do so and it’s very much how they’ve always operated, it’s just that it stretches belief to blame them for most of what’s going on, especially in light of the explosion in inequality, crash in social mobility, collapse in job security (mostly in Europe, the US was always so) and so on in the last couple of decades of Neoliberal political dominance that are for more likely to explain growing discontent and the News-media owned by billionaires very openly pushing far-right ideations 24/7.
In bigger countries foreigners generally don’t have the kind of influence that locals do, especially the wealthy and well-connected ones.
As I see it, there are definitely multiple manipulation machines in operation out there nowadays and multiple muppets whose brains are only big enough for simple explanations and who have have fallen for the slop some of them feed and will gladly spout their simplemindedness here.
That said a person who writes “The Russian government might not even need bot farms at this stage, because the West keeps undermining their own credibility” (amongst other such “jewels”) like the previous poster did clearly doesn’t fall into the “critical thinker” category.
You seem to be creating this false dichotomy between “kremlin involvement” and “western oligarchs,” but you don’t seem to see how deeply the two are interconnected, and obscuring that connection only benefits both.
If you genuinely aren’t aware, pull some of the threads and you’ll see what I mean. Look into the connections between the kremlin and political movements like maga, reform UK, AfD, Fidesz, and other similar subversive right-wing extremist elements. As well as media personalities ranging from Fox News hosts to right-wing influgrifters.
Like I’m not trying to polish the turd that is homegrown western extremism, but denying the ties it has to kremlin influence would be as counterproductive as denying the influence that states like Israel have over establishment candidates through more official channels such as AIPAC.
In either case, writing that off as “blaming foreigners” is not a compelling argument. This isn’t like blaming hispanic and/or middle-eastern immigrants for the woes of the working class. This is about criticizing deliberate, orchestrated hybrid warfare techniques of an adversarial nation-state actor who doesn’t even try to deny that they’re doing it, and openly states that their goal is to destroy the west from within.
You can say “well the west deserves it for being evil,” but the fact is most western countries have had systems that were capable of improving themselves incrementally from within; what we end up post-dismantlement is practically an anarcho-capitalist financial olichary/kleptocracy similar to the current governing system russia has; in which all the worst elements dominate any redeeming factors that may have existed, and we end up with the resurgence of fascism that we’re seeing today.
It already worked in the US. Europe got their shit together and it seems their fascist movements are petering out. Not entirely gone, but not looming like the dark clouds on the horizon before a tempest like they seemed to be doing before.
The irony here is that the “blame foreigners” parties are almost entirely all the very same extremist elements who receive funding and support from kremlin propaganda agencies. So again, framing this as “blaming foreigners” falls way short.
Oh, some (very few, IMHO) people will definitely call others “Russian Troll” or equivalent if they point out that Russian interference has far less power than the very much local ultra-rich, politicians and News-media owners when it comes to the current state of most Western nations and that it’s more likely that loudly raging about “foreign interference” is a political propaganda tool of mainstream politicians - a scapegoat for the consequences of the pillaging of the West by ultra-wealthy Westerns (paralleling how “immigrants” are similarly used as scapegoats by other mainstream politicians - they’re both very much “blame foreigners”) that said politicians very much supported and still support.
Also, don’t get me started on how the interference of other nations is much larger and more open - for example both main parties in the US and UK openly have groups amongst their “parliamentarians” who are “Friends of Israel”.
Russia almost certainly interfered or tried to, because it makes sense for them to do so and it’s very much how they’ve always operated, it’s just that it stretches belief to blame them for most of what’s going on, especially in light of the explosion in inequality, crash in social mobility, collapse in job security (mostly in Europe, the US was always so) and so on in the last couple of decades of Neoliberal political dominance that are for more likely to explain growing discontent and the News-media owned by billionaires very openly pushing far-right ideations 24/7.
In bigger countries foreigners generally don’t have the kind of influence that locals do, especially the wealthy and well-connected ones.
As I see it, there are definitely multiple manipulation machines in operation out there nowadays and multiple muppets whose brains are only big enough for simple explanations and who have have fallen for the slop some of them feed and will gladly spout their simplemindedness here.
That said a person who writes “The Russian government might not even need bot farms at this stage, because the West keeps undermining their own credibility” (amongst other such “jewels”) like the previous poster did clearly doesn’t fall into the “critical thinker” category.
You seem to be creating this false dichotomy between “kremlin involvement” and “western oligarchs,” but you don’t seem to see how deeply the two are interconnected, and obscuring that connection only benefits both.
If you genuinely aren’t aware, pull some of the threads and you’ll see what I mean. Look into the connections between the kremlin and political movements like maga, reform UK, AfD, Fidesz, and other similar subversive right-wing extremist elements. As well as media personalities ranging from Fox News hosts to right-wing influgrifters.
Like I’m not trying to polish the turd that is homegrown western extremism, but denying the ties it has to kremlin influence would be as counterproductive as denying the influence that states like Israel have over establishment candidates through more official channels such as AIPAC.
In either case, writing that off as “blaming foreigners” is not a compelling argument. This isn’t like blaming hispanic and/or middle-eastern immigrants for the woes of the working class. This is about criticizing deliberate, orchestrated hybrid warfare techniques of an adversarial nation-state actor who doesn’t even try to deny that they’re doing it, and openly states that their goal is to destroy the west from within.
You can say “well the west deserves it for being evil,” but the fact is most western countries
havehad systems that were capable of improving themselves incrementally from within; what we end up post-dismantlement is practically an anarcho-capitalist financial olichary/kleptocracy similar to the current governing system russia has; in which all the worst elements dominate any redeeming factors that may have existed, and we end up with the resurgence of fascism that we’re seeing today.It already worked in the US. Europe got their shit together and it seems their fascist movements are petering out. Not entirely gone, but not looming like the dark clouds on the horizon before a tempest like they seemed to be doing before.
The irony here is that the “blame foreigners” parties are almost entirely all the very same extremist elements who receive funding and support from kremlin propaganda agencies. So again, framing this as “blaming foreigners” falls way short.