Basically just something people say that indicates a position indirectly, like how seperatists from a given region might always say they’re from [region] and not [country] or how trump supporters call AI “SI” now.
Basically just something people say that indicates a position indirectly, like how seperatists from a given region might always say they’re from [region] and not [country] or how trump supporters call AI “SI” now.
My favorite example is how francophone leftists or those who dislike america will call americans “USians”. (Américain -> États-Unien)
I call people from the US that as I respect the other nations in the Americas who are also Americans - from Chilean people to Canadian. All American. Neither of them USian.
But, I do also hate US Defaultism because it shows a lack of knowledge/understanding/awareness which only plays into the stereotypes that people from the US are stupid and ignorant. Which I think is disparaging to (some of) them, and they could show they aren’t by being using self-aware language. Hence, “USian” . It’s like how “woke” originated too - i.e. “awake” to institutional bigotry.
No one but those from the US claim the term “American”. Canadians do not want to be called American, and everyone else speaks a whole different language, and they prefer to be referred to by their county as well
It’s not US defaultism, it’s like calling someone from China Asian, or worse Oriental. It’s not woke, no one will thank you for calling them by a label you’ve assigned to them as an outsider
Not as a nationality but as a continental identity (yes, just one). USians changed the number of official continental regions and their names, but you can trace the history of that and it is very recent. Many historical documents of real Americans (from America, the continent) talk about themselves as both their nationality (Cubans, Mexicans, etc.) and Americans. Just as a French is both a French and a European. That’s why that’s still the continental model of some countries. I think it makes sense to call USians a name that’s not stolen from other regions or peoples, even in English.
What exactly is a continental identity? People have a cultural and a national identity, sometimes a regional identity, no one has a continental identity
Europeans kind of do, but it’s nowhere close to the continent of Europe, is it? The continent was named after a group of countries with a close history and a large concentration of colonial powers. The term refers to people of a region, it has nothing to do with continents no matter what taxonomy you want to use
More importantly, how is this at all useful? What concerns do you think North and South Americans share? How do you talk about the people on that half of the planet in a way that doesn’t minimize the interests of the majority of countries there? Time zones?
At the end of the day, it’s offensive to project a label and identity on other people. It’s infantilizing
Are you really asking what joins the people from such an isolated land? I mean, the rest of the world forgot/didn’t know about it until 1492. They were alone, just counting with themselves if they needed or wanted to. Thus, the history of the indigenous people from that continent is super intertwined, even if they were independent peoples.
As two examples, the Mexica (“Aztecs”) were originally from a region of the U.S.; the Incas traded with the Mexica. And it makes sense. The landmass itself has its history, and the fauna and flora are super unique and that made their ways of life different. No bread, no horses; they had their own basic foods and animals, their own cultures.
And then, after 1492, they share everything. The history of the U.S. is almost a copy-paste from other countries (or viceversa). I guess the difference is the Anglo ego that wants to pretend that their history is ultra special, when actually the blueprint of imperialism didn’t vary that much. More genocides, less forced assimilation than in some other countries. More appetite for conserving the black slaves than in other countries. Obviously, particular history, as in any other territory. But the history of that land (America, the continent) kept being absurdly close. What happened in one country inspired or affected others, to the point that the entire continent gained its freedom over a couple decades because it was contagious. Trade, literature, etc. There are literal degrees on the history of Spanish speaking or Romance language speaking countries, making the whole “North and South” not only obsolete but an absurd. How can you divide Panama from Colombia, especially after the 1500s? No way. “Then it’s Anglo vs Latin America” (conceding the point that America is the continent, by the way). No, that’s just disguised xenophobia and very inaccurate as what do we do with Belize, Guyana, Quebec…?
“But continents are arbitrary”. Yes. Europe is not separated from Asia, yet we divide them because of culture. If we respected American cultures, we’d do the same and recognize their similarities, their shared histories, their interdependence, and their sad subjugation in modern times to one of them: the U.S. (something something bananas and oil).
Testimony of the defense and use of that ‘continental identity’ is Our America (Nuestra América) from José Martí. It cannot be much clearer than that. Or the existence of things like the Journal de la Société des américanistes. American studies (Americanismo in Spanish, Americanística in Portuguese). IDK. It’s just so crazy to me, no offense, but it’s crazy that you asked what could they possibly had in common. Maybe listen to decolonial activists, indigenous activists, and actual American people outside the U.S…
It’s only ever done online, if you’re taking to people irl, it’s obvious via context. But online is global so it makes sense to talk in a global sense.
The reason no one does it in person is because they would be swiftly corrected.
In fact, no one actually uses it on the Internet because no one would know what you mean… It’s just a meme argument that probably originated from 4chan
It’s literally the same as calling all Asian people Chinese. You can’t just pick the biggest country in a region (let alone an entire hemisphere) and fold everyone there under their label…No matter what Internet logic you use to justify it, it’s still offensive to everyone involved
Thanks for the comedy. I love how wrong you are. About everything you said.
A) it isn’t said online because of context. Everyone you’re talking to face to face will understand what you’re saying from previous parts of the conversation. It’s only online that you talk to people from all over the world in any given conversation so it’s better to be specific about areas. That’s also why people will say “The US” and not America. To many people, America is the continent, both North and South America. This just shows you lack in education and understanding how others see the world probably because you’re selfish and don’t think about other people from other parts of the world.
B) just because you’ve heard of 4chan and probably don’t understand it, you think everything you don’t like/understand comes from there. Such a Boomer take. Everybody would know what you mean if you called someone a USian. Unless they lack in education and understanding how others see the world probably because they’re selfish and don’t think about other people.
C) People do say “Asian people” quite commonly. They probably shouldn’t but they do. Asian means something different in different places too. If you said “Asian” in the UK, they would think you’re meaning India, Pakistan or Bangladesh. In the US, it’d be the “Oriental” countries. From Australia, it could also be used for South East Asia. You’d know this if…insert end line.
D) China and The US aren’t the biggest country in either of their respective continents. China isn’t by physical size OR population. Well done on being ignorant in multiple ways. Calling someone from the Americas “American” isn’t calling them USian, it’s calling them from The Americas. Insert end line.
E) Hemispheres. Western and eastern are colonial concepts and based off the Greenwich Meridian. Northern and Southern are based on a physical attribute of the oblate spheroid we call Earth and useful due to our axial shift. This shows lack of knowledge about the…you know where I’m going with this.
F) if you’re offended, meh, I don’t care. Don’t be a snowflake. Others aren’t. Get over it. I’m not punching down at a maligned group, even if USians do have both a superiority complex and a victim complex simultaneously - honestly the cognitive dissonance inherent in the psyche of the country should be studied.
Anyhoo, good chat.
… Wow. I think every bit of that was objectively wrong, except maybe the thing where it becomes obvious in person? I couldn’t make heads or tails of that part.
But the fact that you said “Asian people” instead of “Asians” proves my point
You apparently know it’s offensive… But you still seem to think it’s offensive to Americans. It’s not, it’s offensive to everyone else on that half of the planet (which is what a hemisphere is, no matter how you draw the lines)
On that note, you really should spend a few minutes with a globe…
But in a global sense, if you say American people know who or what you’re talking about
I have tried to start using US Americans but have used USians in the past for brevity. For the same reasons, though.
I’ve started using “USA” and “USA citizens”. They’re not the only united states or the only Americans.
I do agree that American defaultism only hurts them, but at least in english it’s rare enough that saying “American” doesn’t count as US defaultism imo, I’m in Québec and I’d say at least 20% of people here say that.
yeah someone was talking to me like. well its not the name. the name is the united states of america. and im like. well its the republic of ireland but people just call it ireland. lots of countries have a sorta descritive official name with elements of what it is.
The corollary would be calling Ireland “The Republic”.
or I gues republiasian or something. maybe trasian. but yeah the republic would be like the united states. thinking about it its kinda wierder we use the united states often instead of america.
I usually call them the Cheeseburger people from Burgerstan
Or Magastan.
At least that’s funny
I’m Canadian, but so often “American” is considered from the USA. I’m not a huge fan of that. So I’ll usually use North America personally.
Ehhhh I’m an anglophone USian, and use “USian”. Am leftist though so maybe you’re onto something lol
I’ve never heard someone say that irl, although I have seen it on lemmy, but I’ve heard tons of people say the french equivalent irl, which is why I said it was francophones. It is based to say it in english though.
I don’t know French very well, but it seems like it works better, grammatically speaking, in French than in English.
Yes 100%, it’s incredibly clunky in english but in french it’s just as nice to say as the “American”
what a strange assumption to make.
Well, those were the stated reasons of everyone I asked.
wait, literally? you asked “why do you say ‘usian’” and they’ve responded “je hateux vouz guys”? i’ve always used terms like that because “american” seems too broad. i use “north/central/south” american" when referring to larger divisions, and us american when talking about the country specifically.
Well, not like “I hate Americans” but moreso like “I dislike the country that is the US, I dislike it’s influence and how it uses it’s power”. I am a francophone, and it’s why I use the term, the one time I was in the US the people seemed very nice.
“I dislike the government therefore I will be disrespectful to the people by refusing to use their preferred demonym.” Alright bud.
It’s in french. You don’t have a preferred demonym in french. It’s like how the Dutch call themselves Netherlanders, but very few people say that. (Or how in french they’re called Hollandais)
Also how is it disrespectful???
No, it’s a rarely spoken language here (though Américain is still more common than États-unien). But “American” is the preferred term when speaking English. Like how in English they’re “the Dutch” but in Dutch the people are Nederlanders.
How is it not? It’s a signal that the speaker is openly hostile, or indifferent at best, to the culture. We don’t want to be called that. It’s also not any less vague, despite the common justification of “America is the whole continent”. For one, there’s more than one “United States” (we are right next to the United Mexican States). For another, there’s rarely a reason to refer to the entire landmass because the only shared trait between us is that we weren’t “discovered” until Europeans came across the Atlantic. In American English we treat North and South America as separate continents. I know they’re often referred to as one in Latinate languages, but to us it’s about as useful as “Afro-Eurasia”.
i honestly took it as word play. I do word play all the time so I don’t think to deep about anything. maybe im dog whistling as I use trump for shit, ass, fuck and I have been considering adding cunt.