Internationally, South Korea’s Samsung Electronics and SK hynix have been pursuing the 4F² technology.
SK hynix unveiled its 4F² road map in 2025, while Samsung planned to mass-produce sub-10-nanometre DRAM based on the new design by 2028, according to a report published by Seoul Economic Daily on October 13.
CXMT said it was the first company to complete engineering sample validation of the architecture, and if development continues smoothly, it could become the first company globally to bring 4F²-based products to market.
lol. That whole thing was propaganda. First of all, the 4F2 process isn’t better than the 6F2 process. 4F2 is worse! 4F2, just means they’re being forced to build the chip vertically in more steps because they don’t have access to ASMLs most advanced lithography machines. Because they can’t pack more transistors into a smaller space by making them smaller, they’re being forced to build them vertically, which requires more layers. And more layers means more chances for microscopic mistakes. And that’s the case! Their yields are abysmal, only 30% yields, while Samsung and SK Hynix typically get 70% yields. And what do 30% yields mean? It’s means the process isn’t commercially viable. The only reason it even exists is because the Chinese government forces it to. In order to be commercially viable, their prices would have to be much higher than everyone else’s, in which case it’s a huge waste of time. Granted, the Chinese government might flood the world with these chips as a loss leader, but mostly they’re just making them to satisfy the Chinese government’s own need for chips. They probably won’t leave the country in any significant number.
Hm. This says their 17nm DDR5 yields have surpassed 90%. HBM3E yields appears to be low. Are you talking abt HBM yields?
4F2 targets 10nm DRAM which doesn’t require ASML’s most advanced stuff - EUV, AFAIK. It’s done with DUV which China has plenty of and they also got some domestic machines coming out this year. I see info that Micron has pivoted away from 4F2 but SK and Samsung are actively developing it for their next processes. Do you have anything that shows otherwise? If they’re still developing it, why would they do it if 4F2 is worse than 6F2?
Hopefully this will coincide with the bubble popping and we can see a glut in DRAM supply from all of the cancelled orders.
Who cares? It will end up in Altman’s shed anyway.
In the short run for sure.
I think they won’t stop expending production until they’ve saturated the market. Unlike Micron they won’t lose their capital backing when their margins disappear from low prices. RAM is systemically important and the state will keep its RAM producers capitalized at non-profit margins. Because RAM underpins the rest of the Chinese economy these days. It’s important for RAM to be cheap. So I bet they’ll expand production past the point where prices start falling, and keep expanding till they fall to the point where they make no profit. At that point Micron would be under and they’ll purchase it for pennies on the dollar. Samsung would probably stay around because they’re a quasi-state firm and the Korean state will keep their RAM business capitalized for the same reason China would. After all Korea still manufactures plenty of stuff.
Agreed. It’s not because we’re all going to be swimming in CXMT ram. It’s because it’s going to hopefully force everyone else to suddenly be competitive.
Pretty much. I would be happier if we still had hardware from a decade ago with prices from a decade ago than where we‘re at right now. I don‘t feel any enthusiasm for better benchmarks when big tech keeps hoarding all of it anyway.
Nah, 9 years ago. I want the Ryzen hardware drop at least.
That’s already Trump time. I’d stick with the Obama period even if I have to use filthy Intel. I’ll trade AMD for keeping overt fascism under wraps. 😂
Why you gotta take it there.
Just how living through those years felt. 2010-2015 felt OK, even somewhat optimistic. 2016-onwards… hadn’t felt OK and is getting worse. To me at least, it matters how I feel while using my hardware. 😄
Why on earth is the most well known Chinese state media website not banned in this community?
why should state media be banned from c/technology?
