Two things can be a problem at once. These double standards we have recently where we keep tolerating ml rhetoric in our comms is why hardcore tankies like this person and dogbert and others are emboldened to outright propagandize in our comms. It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here. And when we get straight up propaganda like this from people with a clear anarchist-hating history, we give a slap on the wrist. Enabling further propaganda.
No lib gets anywhere that amount of leeway in here.
Don’t forget lefty memes is for “actual” leftists, not for libs.
We usually start with post removal and then move on to a community ban if the user continues breaking the community rules. That’s standard practice no?
It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here.
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism. If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
And in regards to OP, yes I agree those particular memes were not appropriate for the community and should and would have been removed as a matter of course.
To put it in perspective, lefty memes is our top community and alsaas is a very sincere and thoughtful moderator who has been a big part of that success. I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post. People have feelings ya know.
If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
The problem is exactly because an authoritarian ML posted a meme that doesn’t fit the instance rules. And now that they got off with a slap on the wrist, they continued to post similar shite. And that emboldens the rest like them.
I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
People have feelings ya know.
Sometimes I think y’all forget that the same applies to me, and I’m the one routinely dogpiled by libs and tankies. One going on right this moment about this post in fact.
EDIT:
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism
I also think you took my statement the wrong way. It wasn’t meant to call the rest “fake”, but pointing out that platforming/facilitating authcom rhetoric, is driving away anarchists who see things different than you do.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
Maybe when you aren’t on a hot streak of getting in internet fights with friends and foes alike? And ideally in a way that doesn’t make it look like you are throwing your own mods under the bus just to prove a point. Anyway I’m not gonna continue this here. If you actually want to have a proper conversation instead of public grandstanding then we can continue in matrix. I’m done with this here.
I fluctuate between Anarcho-Communist and Religious Anarchist depending on current events and how my neurodivergent brain that’s here in the US interprets these questions. For participating in your community and critiquing overt authoritarian takes, I am called “the liberal” by alsaaas (алсааас) in !queer_defense_front@lemmy.blahaj.zone, a tankie if I chime in on a news story that someone from lemmy.world happens to see, or even a wumao depending on how egregiously someone wants to lump me in with authoritarian communists for wishing to work with my neighbors to dissolve the American empire I was born in and suffer under.
The moderation of that community VERY strongly favors a specific authoritarian communist bent and makes revolutionary anarchists feel distinctly unwelcome anytime they try to say that they have an issue with this.
The specific issue I take here is that ‘“actual” leftist’ collapses left vs right into a binary when the political spectrum as a whole can’t be mapped out left and right, north and south, or even up and down. It needs a full 12 or more axes to exist within. Like. I’ve linked a quiz that is meant to critique the popular political compass model, and even then I find it to be a gross oversimplification of the entire political spectrum. Participating in your community gives no impression that it could be possible for anyone other than an authoritarian communist to not be called “the lib.”
And so we’re clear, I’m not trying to attack anyone’s feelings, I’m just trying to make a critique about the environment that your moderation style has created. You can take this critique or you can not. I won’t be participating in your community for the foreseeable future because it’s abundantly clear that people like me, anarchists who hate all forms of authority and the state, are not welcome and will never be welcome as long as you and alsaaas (алсааас) maintain your current understanding of what an “actual” leftist is.
I’m gonna go through the modlog and see if there is any truth to what you are claiming, because your assessment seems very vibes based to me right now. And I honestly can’t recall any pro authoritarian memes that have been permitted in this community. If you could maybe give some examples of memes that fit that category, that would be helpful, because honestly I’m confused by these claims.
https://slrpnk.net/post/32125051/19874575 This user in particular seems to be time super into North Korean monarchist authority structures (and gets gas from alsaaas nearly every time he posts)
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
(Disclaimer I am writing this just before going to sleep in the morning, I am eepy AF and not all that well articulated, but I wanted to address this nonetheless)
Not gonna engage here fully, just wanted to clarify that for some of your historical takes and other stuff I called you lib.
But people don’t exist on a one dimensional axis for me either, I see a person with lib historical takes => I say “lib”.
Doesn’t mean I think the other parts of you aren’t genuine or genuinely leftist. I’m just stressed and annoyed at all the lib takes I see on the comm so I’m naturally annoyed at what seems like more of them…
TL;DR: Doesn’t mean I think you are fully a lib (would probably have said shitlib then), but rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
Real TL;DR: You seem OK, some of your lib takes annoyed me for various reason, but I’m sorry for shooting left.
rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
I am going to do my best here to engage in good faith. I’ve found that increasingly hard to do in spaces where you are because I’ve asked you in the past to point me towards the specifics where I’m missing the ball and you’ve NEVER engaged with that, just continuing to double down on bullying me, so… I’m sorry if I’ve been assuming you haven’t been acting in good faith when you were trying to. That’s just the tenor I receive when I try to interact with you and all the feedback I get is either nothing, or throwing insults my way from the position of a moderator.
I will on a trial basis leave you unblocked and unblock your comm. All I ask is if I annoy you again, to treat me like a human being, and give me more to work with.
I will also add, I wonder how many other people you find yourself annoyed with feel the same as I’ve been feeling, because I definitely did not get the impression up to this point that you thought I was okay. It felt a whole hell of a lot more like anytime you took the time to read something I said you went out of your way to insult me rather than engaging with me like a human.
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
It’s probably best if alsaas speaks for herself on that, since I don’t really know how to respond. But I guess I can respond to the examples you provided.
What’s wrong with the first post exactly? Why would you consider it to be pro-authoritarian? It’s meant as a criticism of the surprisingly large number of Zionist German anarchists, which is a legitimate criticism imo. I don’t see how any anarchist can legitimately square that circle.
Also not a pro-authoritarian meme post. Are you referring to the reaction meme in the comments? Are you really arguing that a random laser-eyes meme comment (not post) is evidence of a pro-authoritarian bias in the community? Can I ask, is it the fact it’s someone attacking a liberal for selling the idea the Dems will ever move left (they won’t), or is it just the silly meme image that you feel is problematic? I mean a robotic laser-eyes Kim is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Maybe I’m just too chill nowadays but it seems pretty harmless to me, as far as these things go.
And the third one is again some random comment at the bottom of a comment chain? I agree that one should be removed (done).
surprisingly large number of Zionist German anarchists, which is a legitimate criticism imo. I don’t see how any anarchist can legitimately square that circle.
It can’t. If it’s common I’ll back off on that one. It’s absolutely a circle that cannot be squared as an authoritarian regime on stolen land dehumanizing and de-indigenizing levantine people by claiming they are arabian is unacceptable.
Are you referring to the reaction meme in the comments? Are you really arguing that a random laser-eyes meme comment (not post) is evidence of a pro-authoritarian bias in the community? Can I ask, is it the fact it’s someone attacking a liberal for selling the idea the Dems will ever move left (they won’t), or is it just the silly meme image that you feel is problematic? I mean a robotic laser-eyes Kim is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Maybe I’m just too chill nowadays but it seems pretty harmless to me, as far as these things go.
Look through that user’s comments. Being pro-NK is in this comment is not an isolated incident. I disagree with the comment they’re replying to as well, but that is WILDLY overcorrecting and normalizing a system of authority that amounts to monarchy. If you really don’t see it, I don’t know what to say as that’s pretty shocking. It’s like saying the nazis on 4chan aren’t serious and are just posting for the lulz up until their terrorism took to the streets in 2014 when suddenly it all became WAY to real. If you’re really chill with that, so be it, and continue on your way but I don’t want to participate in a discussion forum where that manner of behavior is treated as fine as it de-legitimizes efforts to oppose authority.
That last one I had previously reported before it was fully downvoted. That you aren’t seeing these things when they’re being reported and that they’re being left up is DEEPLY concerning to me. It seems like you’re taking a hands off approach to a community that people have noticed they can post their auth-comm propaganda to with at least relative impunity. @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com even said they’re getting concerned with this after he was specifically name dropped as being over-reacting AND was accused of “crashing out” which… either @alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com doesn’t know what that term means in AAVE or it means something different in her understood dialect of English from German, but it is WILDLY inappropriate to say @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com started this fight.
Look. My overall conclusion is if y’all wanna moderate your comm how you want, that’s fine. I’ve had it blocked for about a week because I don’t need the energy of authority clogging up my feed when I come home and try to decompress from a day of organizing my community and training people on ICE alerting signals. !mop@quokk.au and !memes@slrpnk.net are much more my speed. All I wanted to say is that @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com isn’t coming out of nowhere and the way the moderators of a community treat people will impact the tenor and temperature of that community. I’ve reached a place where I don’t want to deal with all this, so I haven’t been and I’ll continue to won’t.
It can’t. If it’s common I’ll back off on that one. It’s absolutely a circle that cannot be squared as an authoritarian regime on stolen land dehumanizing and de-indigenizing levantine people by claiming they are arabian is unacceptable.
Awesome, thanks.
I’m gonna ignore the middle part because I’m sorry, I can’t take it seriously, and you are making a completely false equivalence. Are you genuinely worried about North Korean sympathizers blowing up the White House right now? I mean, c’mon. You’ve got real problems to deal with over there instead of imaginary ones.
That last one I had previously reported before it was fully downvoted. That you aren’t seeing these things when they’re being reported and that they’re being left up is DEEPLY concerning to me. It seems like you’re taking a hands off approach to a community that people have noticed they can post their auth-comm propaganda to with at least relative impunity.
I guess I agree maybe it could do with some closer moderation and we are pretty hands off. It was a clear violation of Rule 2 and it has been removed. Mistakes happen. I’ve also discussed with Alsaas and we are gonna recruit some additional mods to help make sure things aren’t missed, because tbh I don’t usually bother with the comments unless there is a report. I guess I’ll be missing out on that bonus.
it is WILDLY inappropriate to say @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com started this fight.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one, but I’m not gonna get into it here. Stay chill Quill.
I’m gonna ignore the middle part because I’m sorry, I can’t take it seriously, and you are making a completely false equivalence. Are you genuinely worried about North Korean sympathizers blowing up the White House right now? I mean, c’mon. You’ve got real problems to deal with over there instead of imaginary ones.
Since the good faith trial period lasted so little time after I thought we made some forward progress and then realized this morning we hadn’t, I feel the need to address this. This was not what I was saying at all. I’m not worried about NK sympathizers blowing up the white house, don’t be absurd. I’m worried about hitting challenges trying to recruit people who are fed up with how awful everything is all the time to mutual aid projects and community defense groups because their only experience with The New Left is a bunch of online bullies bullying them. I’m worried about normalizing pro-authoritarian rhetoric in the spaces that I am working in to try to build a better world repeating all of the same mistakes of not just the last century, but of even just the last 15 years.
Unserious online nonsense has a way of making its way into the real world and then I have to deal with it. I already deal with it. There’s a pro-genocide authoritarian in my town who believes that we, here in America, can’t overthrow our shackles until every Ukrainian is dead because he truly believes all Ukrainians are Nazis. This makes it harder for me to get my neighbors to come with me to our community defense training because they’re worried he might be there because the community defense group doesn’t want to kick him out because he opposes Donald Trump. I can get hem to come with me to our mutual aid group to help distribute toys, clothing, and food, but his presence in my town makes readying ourselves to deal with ICE more difficult. The absurdity of course being ICE can’t differentiate a Russian and a Ukrainian.
That’s all I was trying to say. When you leave stuff like this alone it ferments into real world problems that someone else has to deal with.
Two things can be a problem at once. These double standards we have recently where we keep tolerating ml rhetoric in our comms is why hardcore tankies like this person and dogbert and others are emboldened to outright propagandize in our comms. It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here. And when we get straight up propaganda like this from people with a clear anarchist-hating history, we give a slap on the wrist. Enabling further propaganda.
No lib gets anywhere that amount of leeway in here.
Don’t forget lefty memes is for “actual” leftists, not for libs.
We usually start with post removal and then move on to a community ban if the user continues breaking the community rules. That’s standard practice no?
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism. If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
And in regards to OP, yes I agree those particular memes were not appropriate for the community and should and would have been removed as a matter of course.
To put it in perspective, lefty memes is our top community and alsaas is a very sincere and thoughtful moderator who has been a big part of that success. I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post. People have feelings ya know.
The problem is exactly because an authoritarian ML posted a meme that doesn’t fit the instance rules. And now that they got off with a slap on the wrist, they continued to post similar shite. And that emboldens the rest like them.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
Sometimes I think y’all forget that the same applies to me, and I’m the one routinely dogpiled by libs and tankies. One going on right this moment about this post in fact.
EDIT:
I also think you took my statement the wrong way. It wasn’t meant to call the rest “fake”, but pointing out that platforming/facilitating authcom rhetoric, is driving away anarchists who see things different than you do.
Maybe when you aren’t on a hot streak of getting in internet fights with friends and foes alike? And ideally in a way that doesn’t make it look like you are throwing your own mods under the bus just to prove a point. Anyway I’m not gonna continue this here. If you actually want to have a proper conversation instead of public grandstanding then we can continue in matrix. I’m done with this here.
I think the problem I have is what an “actual” leftist is defined as for your community.
For full disclosure, here is my 12 Axes
I fluctuate between Anarcho-Communist and Religious Anarchist depending on current events and how my neurodivergent brain that’s here in the US interprets these questions. For participating in your community and critiquing overt authoritarian takes, I am called “the liberal” by alsaaas (алсааас) in !queer_defense_front@lemmy.blahaj.zone, a tankie if I chime in on a news story that someone from lemmy.world happens to see, or even a wumao depending on how egregiously someone wants to lump me in with authoritarian communists for wishing to work with my neighbors to dissolve the American empire I was born in and suffer under.
The moderation of that community VERY strongly favors a specific authoritarian communist bent and makes revolutionary anarchists feel distinctly unwelcome anytime they try to say that they have an issue with this.
The specific issue I take here is that ‘“actual” leftist’ collapses left vs right into a binary when the political spectrum as a whole can’t be mapped out left and right, north and south, or even up and down. It needs a full 12 or more axes to exist within. Like. I’ve linked a quiz that is meant to critique the popular political compass model, and even then I find it to be a gross oversimplification of the entire political spectrum. Participating in your community gives no impression that it could be possible for anyone other than an authoritarian communist to not be called “the lib.”
And so we’re clear, I’m not trying to attack anyone’s feelings, I’m just trying to make a critique about the environment that your moderation style has created. You can take this critique or you can not. I won’t be participating in your community for the foreseeable future because it’s abundantly clear that people like me, anarchists who hate all forms of authority and the state, are not welcome and will never be welcome as long as you and alsaaas (алсааас) maintain your current understanding of what an “actual” leftist is.
I’m gonna go through the modlog and see if there is any truth to what you are claiming, because your assessment seems very vibes based to me right now. And I honestly can’t recall any pro authoritarian memes that have been permitted in this community. If you could maybe give some examples of memes that fit that category, that would be helpful, because honestly I’m confused by these claims.
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
(Disclaimer I am writing this just before going to sleep in the morning, I am eepy AF and not all that well articulated, but I wanted to address this nonetheless)
Not gonna engage here fully, just wanted to clarify that for some of your historical takes and other stuff I called you lib.
But people don’t exist on a one dimensional axis for me either, I see a person with lib historical takes => I say “lib”.
Doesn’t mean I think the other parts of you aren’t genuine or genuinely leftist. I’m just stressed and annoyed at all the lib takes I see on the comm so I’m naturally annoyed at what seems like more of them…
TL;DR: Doesn’t mean I think you are fully a lib (would probably have said shitlib then), but rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
Real TL;DR: You seem OK, some of your lib takes annoyed me for various reason, but I’m sorry for shooting left.
I am going to do my best here to engage in good faith. I’ve found that increasingly hard to do in spaces where you are because I’ve asked you in the past to point me towards the specifics where I’m missing the ball and you’ve NEVER engaged with that, just continuing to double down on bullying me, so… I’m sorry if I’ve been assuming you haven’t been acting in good faith when you were trying to. That’s just the tenor I receive when I try to interact with you and all the feedback I get is either nothing, or throwing insults my way from the position of a moderator.
I will on a trial basis leave you unblocked and unblock your comm. All I ask is if I annoy you again, to treat me like a human being, and give me more to work with.
I will also add, I wonder how many other people you find yourself annoyed with feel the same as I’ve been feeling, because I definitely did not get the impression up to this point that you thought I was okay. It felt a whole hell of a lot more like anytime you took the time to read something I said you went out of your way to insult me rather than engaging with me like a human.
It’s probably best if alsaas speaks for herself on that, since I don’t really know how to respond. But I guess I can respond to the examples you provided.
It can’t. If it’s common I’ll back off on that one. It’s absolutely a circle that cannot be squared as an authoritarian regime on stolen land dehumanizing and de-indigenizing levantine people by claiming they are arabian is unacceptable.
Look through that user’s comments. Being pro-NK is in this comment is not an isolated incident. I disagree with the comment they’re replying to as well, but that is WILDLY overcorrecting and normalizing a system of authority that amounts to monarchy. If you really don’t see it, I don’t know what to say as that’s pretty shocking. It’s like saying the nazis on 4chan aren’t serious and are just posting for the lulz up until their terrorism took to the streets in 2014 when suddenly it all became WAY to real. If you’re really chill with that, so be it, and continue on your way but I don’t want to participate in a discussion forum where that manner of behavior is treated as fine as it de-legitimizes efforts to oppose authority.
That last one I had previously reported before it was fully downvoted. That you aren’t seeing these things when they’re being reported and that they’re being left up is DEEPLY concerning to me. It seems like you’re taking a hands off approach to a community that people have noticed they can post their auth-comm propaganda to with at least relative impunity. @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com even said they’re getting concerned with this after he was specifically name dropped as being over-reacting AND was accused of “crashing out” which… either @alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com doesn’t know what that term means in AAVE or it means something different in her understood dialect of English from German, but it is WILDLY inappropriate to say @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com started this fight.
Look. My overall conclusion is if y’all wanna moderate your comm how you want, that’s fine. I’ve had it blocked for about a week because I don’t need the energy of authority clogging up my feed when I come home and try to decompress from a day of organizing my community and training people on ICE alerting signals. !mop@quokk.au and !memes@slrpnk.net are much more my speed. All I wanted to say is that @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com isn’t coming out of nowhere and the way the moderators of a community treat people will impact the tenor and temperature of that community. I’ve reached a place where I don’t want to deal with all this, so I haven’t been and I’ll continue to won’t.
Awesome, thanks.
I’m gonna ignore the middle part because I’m sorry, I can’t take it seriously, and you are making a completely false equivalence. Are you genuinely worried about North Korean sympathizers blowing up the White House right now? I mean, c’mon. You’ve got real problems to deal with over there instead of imaginary ones.
I guess I agree maybe it could do with some closer moderation and we are pretty hands off. It was a clear violation of Rule 2 and it has been removed. Mistakes happen. I’ve also discussed with Alsaas and we are gonna recruit some additional mods to help make sure things aren’t missed, because tbh I don’t usually bother with the comments unless there is a report. I guess I’ll be missing out on that bonus.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one, but I’m not gonna get into it here. Stay chill Quill.
Since the good faith trial period lasted so little time after I thought we made some forward progress and then realized this morning we hadn’t, I feel the need to address this. This was not what I was saying at all. I’m not worried about NK sympathizers blowing up the white house, don’t be absurd. I’m worried about hitting challenges trying to recruit people who are fed up with how awful everything is all the time to mutual aid projects and community defense groups because their only experience with The New Left is a bunch of online bullies bullying them. I’m worried about normalizing pro-authoritarian rhetoric in the spaces that I am working in to try to build a better world repeating all of the same mistakes of not just the last century, but of even just the last 15 years.
Unserious online nonsense has a way of making its way into the real world and then I have to deal with it. I already deal with it. There’s a pro-genocide authoritarian in my town who believes that we, here in America, can’t overthrow our shackles until every Ukrainian is dead because he truly believes all Ukrainians are Nazis. This makes it harder for me to get my neighbors to come with me to our community defense training because they’re worried he might be there because the community defense group doesn’t want to kick him out because he opposes Donald Trump. I can get hem to come with me to our mutual aid group to help distribute toys, clothing, and food, but his presence in my town makes readying ourselves to deal with ICE more difficult. The absurdity of course being ICE can’t differentiate a Russian and a Ukrainian.
That’s all I was trying to say. When you leave stuff like this alone it ferments into real world problems that someone else has to deal with.