Starting in early March, the platform will place every account into a default “teen-appropriate” experience unless it has proof that users are adults.
The move has brought widespread criticism from Discord users, who are citing privacy and security concerns following a recent breach of a third-party vendor that ended up exposing around 70,000 government ID images used to verify the age of Discord users.
I am just not going to participate in that verification shit, and, for now, I will just not see that stuff anymore.
Maybe people will finally realize discord isn’t the place for your projects documentation to exist
I miss the days of forums and hate having tobfo to discord for support on stuff
Exactly what I was thinking
Do it, pussies. I remember when sites would actually topple when they made poor decisions.
Already looking into alternatives. My friends and I are going to switch asap. They aren’t that tech savvy, so it’s pretty much up to me to find a good alternative and teach them how to use it. I don’t mind tho lol
Why do adults have to suffer because parents don’t know how to control their kids?
Because it’s not actually about the kids, the kids are just the excuse. That’s all they ever are.
So happy. Discord sucks.
Yeah, I agree. I hope Discord both fails as a company and as a concept.
Information siloed inside a non-easily searchable interface? No thank you.
TIL people actually pay for nitro lol.
I’ve probably paid around 100€/$ in total (been occasionally using and gifting Nitro since 2019 and regularly for about a year). I’ll definitely stop it and using Discord if they follow through with this.
People always ask why even paying users exist - simple, I am a paying user myself, and by that I hold the power to actually cut their revenue rather than just leave the platform.
I’m not threatening, I’m gonna do it. We’ll see how my game jams go after this. I doubt my entire community will follow me.
Edit: I downloaded Element X for Matrix, and it seems to only be capable of creating a single chat similar to WhatsApp. Tried to download Revolt, and I cant get that one to even send me a verification code to my email. Starting of strong here…
Delete.it now
Revolt is now stoat.chat. And I think they might be getting a little slammed with new users.
As someone who made an account a while ago, no issues so far.
Matrix allows you to structure rooms pretty similar to Discord. It’s called a “space” that can then have rooms. Also Sub-spaces with more rooms. You can then manage access by inheritance or really granular on a space / room level. E.g. hidden / public rooms and spaces.
A few notes though:
- If you can create a space / room might depend on the Matrix server you are on and what capabilities the server admin gives you.
- There is always the option to completely self-host your Matrix instance - like Lemmy, Mastodon, etc. Depends on how tech savvy you are and if self-hosting is worth it to you ( can mean a ton of work).
- I am not claiming Matrix is a full on Discord replacement. Discord has it’s advantages, but so does Matrix if autonomy, privacy, security are important to you. Matrix does have also neat features and bot-ability… but it’s clearly not as easy as Discord. Good enough for many FOSS projects / communities though.
- IMO one key concept (besides decentralization / federation) that can be hard to grasp for new users is the concept of the recovery key that you get in addition to your username / password. Also does not help that there is “legacy” Element and Element X which add some confusion as they differ a bit in functionality.
- Personally I really like Matrix. Cinny might be an alternative client that might appeal more to you than Element. If you are into self-hosting tuwunel might be worth a look (or matrix synapse if you want to go with the OG server implementation)
Thanks for the tips! I only just downloaded Matrix. (Element X) to my phone. I’ll have to do some more research on it. I personally could probably set up my own instance if I had to, work it to me, probably not. I mostly use discord for game jam hosting these days, and DnD with my friends. So, if the level of effort is high, or the barrier to entry isn’t low, I don’t imagine ill get a lot of people switching over to the new space. I guess we’ll see what happens.
To play around you can
either use Element X orgo to https://app.element.io/#/welcome and use the Element web version. ~~It’s basically the same client. ~~ Then create your account with matrix.org - you should be able to create your own space + sub-spaces + rooms to play around with inviting users, get familiar with permissions, etc. There might be limits with video / voice calls - not sure about the public, free matrix.org server.If Matrix is a good fit you can then look through the offerings of some of the respected hosters listed here: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/hosting/ Then you don’t have to do everything yourself. They will maintain the infrastructure and your base installation and you can focus on being just the super user / admin (with your own domain) and build your community.
IMO the only real “hurdle” compared to traditional apps is that in addition to your username / password you also get a “recovery key”. That’s the key for encryption and people are not used to having an additional key. If you lose that key you can still log in and see new conversions but you will not be able to read old conversations that were encrypted using the old key. A workaround for your community might be to not enable encryption in your community rooms (when creating a room you can decide if its contents are encrypted or not). IMO totally worth the little bit of extra effort, but yeah - not something users are familiar with.
Edit: as @WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works pointed out Element X does not yet support Space management. You can check out https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/ for more clients. I really like Cinny (another web client - just checked and it supports space management). On mobile you can maybe try FluffyChat (not sure about space management - but I think they do as spaces are listed as feature).
A workaround for your community might be to not enable encryption in your community rooms
or another workaround is to tell them: if they don’t want to deal with the recovery key, that’s fine, but then they should treat it like signal where if you lose your devices, you lose your old messages. its fine to most people if they know the consequences of their choices beforehand, I think, and this way it won’t feel like an obligation, like a needy app
in element x you can’t yet manage spaces. It’s silly but it’s a relatively new app and and development goes slowly for some reason. you can create the space in element web though, probably element desktop too because they are the same thing.
about the difficulty of registration. you could recommend an instance to them, so they don’t need to choose themselves if they don’t want to. I recommend one that has set up single signon and element call, and is medium sized (so that it is somewhat prepared for spam waves). https://tchncs.de/en/matrix/ is like that.
what would be even better is if it was using tuwunel instead of synapse, because the former is the more efficient matrix server software, but the other is good enough too.if you want to put in some more effort, you can have some insight into matrix servers with this tool: https://federationtester.mtrnord.blog/?serverName=tchncs.de
- overview tab shows at top the server software and its version. synapse is official but very resource heavy for the operator, tuwunel is more efficient
- well-known tab can indicate element call support by having defined org.matrix.msc4143.rtc_foci with livekit. I can’t believe there is no easier way to check this!
- single signon is supported when the element client’s login page for this server allows signing in with external accounts, like github, google, tchncs.de account, etc.
and you can find a list of public servers to check here: https://servers.joinmatrix.org/
I abandoned WhatsApp for Discord after meta got its greedy hooks into it. Do they think people won’t just make a new account elsewhere and move on? Millennials have done it every two years ever since MySpace imploded after Fox News’ Rupert Murdoch bought it. We have been conditioned to let our accounts go.
(Also text messaging, group chats, phone calls, and video calls are things that come standard on smartphones without need of an app. Texting stupid memes to everyone I know has never been easier. Maybe it’s my age, but everyone I regularly talk to on discord is also in my phone. Oh noes, I’ll have to “text” instead of “chat.” The horror.)
How did you use Discord in place of WhatsApp? I found Discord incredibly slow to start up, buggy as hell and a pain in the ass to even jump to specific chats quickly in the UI and that was before they made it worse with the new UI.
When we all switched in 2016-ish whatsapp and discord were pretty like-for-like for what my social group needed (and I agree, old discord had a much better UI). At the time Discord also had the added benefit of being easy to cross-platform with pc, which made online voice chat easier. (Vent had always been persnickety, and skype went from being great to trash almost overnight.) I don’t/didn’t have a problem with lag/bugs on discord but I tend to stay in smaller social circles, and actively avoid the unholy number of giant af chat groups that discord has spawned. Likely I simply benefit from not using all the app’s “features.” Doesn’t surprise me tho that with all the nonsense they keep shoveling in that people are experiencing slow downs and other problems. Textbook enshittification. Even if this latest debacle doesn’t do discord in, it’s only a matter of time.
I hate SMS and vastly prefer a real chat platform, in the US it’s messenger/insta and in EU and much of Asia it’s Whatsapp, line in Japan, kkaotalk in Korea, WeChat/weixin for China, and so on. Discord never crossed over to regular people in my experience for the most part (is the hot girl you met on it?).
I was in the military. Chat apps made it easy to keep up with friends and family even when we weren’t all in the same country. (Poor international communications is definitely a downside of standard phone services). But all of us all are back stateside now and it’s mostly been a gradual slide towards texting for my social group.
This sucks. Fully leaving Discord will be hard for me. One server is functioning as a memorial to my Clan leader who died of cancer.
Maybe I need to research a method of archiving or migrating the data I have access to.
Discrub might be an option depending on access. It seems to work fine, but depending on the amount of data it is pretty slow. I’ve had it running since early this morning, about 12 hours now. Not sure I’d trust the extension with highly sensitive data, but it might be worth taking a look.
as soon as possible. you never know what could happen
Yet again XMPP is ignored in the comments🥲
Stay strong partner
Good! locking away potentially helpful Q&A, discussions, and guides on Discord is fucking stupid.
I hope this means people will slowly start going back to forums. Highly doubt it though.
Discord really is a plague for the open internet yep
I just want to be able to web search shit from forums like I used to be able to 10+ years ago.
So sad to see things literally get worse for no good reason. Same with search engines.
“No good reason” homie you ever use a forum?
Discord is so much better for real time conversations. The biggest problem is to the point of this thread, discoverability is non-existent, you have to join the discord to be able to search for what you need.
Yeah but real time communication is not what this comment was about. The issues is that its being used as a social hub that replaces forums entirely. So when people ask questions about a topic they will do so in some shitty discord channel and the information (both question and answer) will be lost in the un-searchable, un-taggable, un-indexable discord black hole.
Discord should be used for shitposting and hanging out with your gamer buddies, because thats what its designed for. Not as a fucking database of valuable information that will be lost forever.
It actually is, you’re just not connecting the dots.
The people use discord already to game and talk with buddies, developers of various apps/services then use it for similar and answering questions or troubleshooting issues in real-time.
Forums are archaic and difficult by comparison, don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the situation either, but I understand how and why we got to this place, and what would solve the problem is if that data was indexed in a way that search engines could use them, but because you have to have a discord account and join the server and have access to that particular section because of how discord is designed it is not really possible.
I actually freaurntly find helpful information in discord servers using search, but again, agree that it is not designed well for what its been forced into by network effect and convenience.
Edit: I’ll also point out forums aren’t permanent either lol, like 99% of forums I used to frequent are completely gone.
Discord is only good for live conversation. Forums are good for information consolidation and general long term discussions about anything.
Actively troubleshooting an issue in discord is easier then making a forum post and going back and forth that way, which is why it has moved to discord organically.
I just want to be able to web search
shit from forumslike I used to be able to 10+ years ago.
do it cowards. leave now.
My community just setup a Matrix instance and we’re migrating everyone over. Several already cancelled their subscription.
I actually ran into a colleague in a random room, who is also leaving Discord.
It’s pretty nuts, there’s a big exodus going on.
Any guides? Been looking at Element but that set up is intimidating.
Are you self hosting? I just set up an instance today and it was extremely easy following the instructions for the ESS Community edition on github.
I was going to run it on an old gaming PC i been using for piHole. I was thinking a VM as I couldn’t find a premade container and don’t want public stuff running on the machine directly. I was still trying to work my way though reading the docs but got hung up on understanding Kubernetes before starting the setup. I also got sick of fighting Virtual Machine Manager pool location permissions last night.
If you plan on federating, it can end up being pretty resource heavy, so consider either not federating or planning ahead.
What’s the federation like? Haven’t decided on it yet. Realistically I may convince 10ish people to join so I’m not sure it be worth the hassle.
I’m not trying to say that you can’t/shouldn’t federate with others. You don’t need to federate everything, all channels, etc, nor should you IMO. I found out really quickly that the small server I had set aside for it was not up to the task when I decided to sync up the matrix.org main channels. You need lots of ram, FAST storage, and a good internet connection at bare minimum.
Don’t even have to go that far. Just stop paying for Nitro. They’ll get the picture when their revenue stream dries up.
yeah until their IPO goes live and then they will just force ads into the whole thing…
At which point, the only option left is to leave or enjoy rapid enshittification.
Nah. Just quit.
I sure did fucking sucks and they didn’t make it easy. First had to delete all servers first then delete my account. Fuck Discord.
Anyone want to script through the signup process and feed the damn thing a bunch of AI generated faces?
Typically when a signup page is difficult to automate, you can use a library meant for automated testing within a browser—like Selenium. Also, disposable emails services come in handy—like mailsac. If they block all the disposable email services, you can also use your iCloud+ custom email domain (if you have it) with the Allow All Incoming Messages setting turned on—then you use randomly generated user handles for each signup. A better way would be Gmail accounts so that they blend in more, but I’m not sure how to script through Gmail signup when they often require a phone number verification step.
Not sure about the easiest way to recycle your IP, in case they monitor signups that way too. I’m sure there’s a way to overcome that too via VPN.
If 2% of Discord users did this 50 times, that would make half of Discords user profiles and face recognition data completely fake.
They plan on using an AI to read all your conversations as well. You wabt that?
Just quit. Why bother trying to stay?
i used to be quite proficient at using selenium.
though IIRC they require phone numbers for the sign up process now?
Discord age restrictions prevent an underage user from viewing - but not sending - nude pictures.
This isn’t to protect kids. It’s to enforce increasingly authoritarian control over the web.
Any source for this ?
The official announcement is quite vague and since the feature isn’t out it’s hard to know how it will work exactly.
Also, I assume the biggest risk isn’t for teens to send nudes “unprompted” but to let adults contact them and ask for them.
This for example is very vague :
Age-gated Spaces – Only users who are age-assured as adults will be able to access age-restricted channels, servers, and app commands.
So if a teen can only interact with other teens on dedicated spaces it should make it harder for perverts to ask for stuff.
And if an adult tries to pretend to be a teen he will only see blurred content ?
I’m sure many will think I’m trying to defend Discord on this but I’m not. Again we dont really know how this update will work. I’m just trying to make sure we dont spread misinformation.
There will be plenty of time to criticize Discord when they push this update.
What I’m sure of is that discord was definitely a platform of choice for many bad people to hunt and groom teens.
Personally, it’s the fact that discord says they will delete my verification data :
Identity documents submitted to our vendor partners are deleted quickly— in most cases, immediately after age confirmation.
In most cases ? Really ? Is that supposed to look trustworthy ?
The age restrictions for Discord were implemented already in my country a few months ago, that’s why I know it works that way
For what it’s worth, I’m a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and online grooming, and IMO this policy does not make vulnerable kids any safer at all. As a kid, growing up, I was desperate for any validation and even kindness because of my neglectful/abusive home situation and that need was exploited by adults who provided me the emotional connection I needed/wanted, which was then twisted into a romantic/sexual relationship. That’s the risk, and all it needs is a basic chat functionality - once it has started, the groomer can very easily “help” the young person bypass any and all “protections” through any number of methods, including just switching to another platform.
The reality is that most kids are far more at danger from abusive adults in their lives - their parents, family, friends, teachers, etc. - than they are at danger from the Internet. The reason I was vulnerable to abuse online is because I was already abused IRL. If you (or anyone) has concerns about their kids safety online, by far the best thing you can do is just to be there for them, be a trustworthy, kind and loving adult in their lives. That way, when creeps online talk to them, they won’t be needy for the attention, they won’t be vulnerable, and if something makes them uncomfortable, they’ll come and talk to you about it.
Anyways, went off on kind of a tangent, but I hope it’s helpful/informative anyways.
So if a teen can only interact with other teens on dedicated spaces it should make it harder for perverts to ask for stuff.
There is no age verification to prove you’re a teen. The age verification is to prove that you’re an adult.
Please read the end of my message.
If you are a teen “by default” you will have all the restrictions of a teen until you prove you are an adult.
So an adult with ill intentions should either be :
- A teen by default and therefore have many limitations.
- An adult that have limitations in reaching to teens.
Again it’s what the very vague statement of Discord says. We also have no clue how their “inference model for age classification” works either…
So an adult could just create two accounts, one to access teen spaces, where they don’t verify their age l and one for accessing adult spaces, where the age gets verified?
Please read the Discord official post.
one to access teen spaces,
That account will be tagged as a teen account until proven otherwise. Therefore any message or DM he will receive will go to a special inbox with most likely warnings to consult it.
Please, again, I understand that the pitchforks are out for discord, I’m just asking you to take the time to read the official discord post from top to bottom.
There will still be unknowns until they release the update but your question is already answered by their official post.
Basically, as long as an account hasn’t done an age verification it’s assumed to be a teen. And that means all the limitations attached to that. So you can create 10 accounts if you want either :
-
You have proven you are an adult on that account you remove the limitations to what you can do but your messages towards teen accounts will most likely go to that special inbox they mention. No clue exactly how hidden and how much warning are attached to that inbox.
-
You have no proven your age and your account is limited like any other teens account. You won’t be able to see “sensitive media” whatever Discord means by that I dont know.
What I really wonder is what they will allow in term of interactions between the two groups in details. They are very vague on many aspects of it.
But multiplying your accounts on discord doesn’t look like a valid workaround to their system.
The point I am making is about protecting teens from adults. So teen-per-default means that adults can freely talk to teens, which should be prevented. Either allow no teens on your platform, or teens have to proof that they are teens first.
Adults (and teens for that matter) are pretty good at obfuscating grooming.
So teen-per-default means that adults can freely talk to teens, which should be prevented.
That’s not my understanding.
I get your point but by default if Discord thinks you are a teen it also implies all the limitations associated with that status. Which means some media will be blurred and some commands cannot be done.
An adult can keep his “teen default status” but he also keeps all the limitations associated with it. Which I suppose doesn’t mean they can “freely” talk to other accounts as you state.
Notably the DM that a groomer would send will end up in a special inbox for all teens or for that matter “default teen”.
-
Discord probably did the math and are willing to take a hit to the user counts (much like reddit did when they closed the apis), as the vast majority will stay and keep “threatening” to leave. There’s at least the hope that the ones who quit now will establish communities elsewhere, on a (hopefully) better server platform.
Enshittification is not single step. It’s more a “boiling a frog”-kinda process.
Discord itself was a big step of enshittification from the very start when communities moved from individual platforms to Discord servers.
Sometimes I like to remember when Nitro was like 5 bucks and gave a bunch of stuff, and now it is 10 bucks gives less AND they still try to sell me fucking cosmetics…
I dropped my Nitro when they announced a possible buyout/IPO
It probably also says something of the ones that stay: they can keep getting further exploited. And these are the ones they want.
Yep. It’s why trumpers are such a lucrative scam target. It’s a self selected group of easily deceived victims.
Same tactic used by scammers sending “bad” messages - it’s at least partially in purpose to single out the good marks.
I agree, but, I see some parallels, a Reddit competitor that solved some of those issues, was hardly functional when they killed APIs. There was no competition. Look at us now baby! Still not competition, but, at least there’s an alternative.
I hope I can say the same about discord in a bit. There’s really nowhere for anyone to go, without losing a lot of features. Well, hopefully, talented people are going to migrate to these platforms to bring an alternative to discord.
Discord probably did the math and are willing to take a hit to the user counts
I very much doubt whoever thought about doing the math did so, and if they did, that said math made it out of their department. This kind of decision is much more likely to have been a C-suite darling that no one dared speak against or the equivalent thereof.
I’m saying thoughtful organizational decisions are less common than we’d like.
I think they’re already too big to fail. They captured the entire market. There’s no real competitor with any kind of noticeable fraction of the market share.
The closest thing to a competitor are business products similar to slack or teams. None of those have anything close to feature parity like high quality streaming at no cost.
I would gladly host something myself, but I can’t do it all. IMO this needs a lemmy equivalent with decentralized hosting or something.
Are there any viable alternatives? Last I looked they all kinda sucked
I wanna start by saying I’m not a power user, I only use discord as a glorified chat manager for my immediate friends. That said, Stoat is everything I like about discord with a nicer ui and a public server seach function. I made an account when discord started ads and I honestly feel like it’s a little further than Lemmy was when I came here from reddit.
Right now sign up is slow because of the huge influx of users. That said, the team is handling it well and being very transparent about it which is refreshing.
I love Stoat’s UI but video streaming is an absolute must for My use case and last I checked they said it wasn’t a priority
Ahh that’s fair.
I’ve been hearing good things about https://spacebar.chat/. Stoat (formerly Revolt) is out there as well. Matrix is another possibility, but it’s more for individual channels rather than whole servers, so doesn’t fit some use cases.
The problem is, even if I am willing to deal with some inconveniences, many others aren’t. How am I going to move a server with >100 active users and multiple thousand inactive ones? And what about the six others I have that fit that description? There’s quite a few servers I could go without, but around a dozen that I’d much prefer not to lose.
I’ve already been trying, but people don’t like Revolt, Nerimity, Matrix, hell I tried Mattermost. Some people are fine with some of these platforms, but there is never any remote consensus.
At least some have cancelled their nitro subscription, making them a net loss for Discord in the future.
Discord has, despite everything, been my primary chat/social app and to switch to something else one has to uproot absolutely everything. That’s sadly not feasible.
Does it have video streaming yet?
Sounds like it’s experimental at the moment:
Voice/Video when?
Currently there is experimental voice/video WebRTC support in Spacebar. UDP connections are not currently supported.
This is a very difficult feature to get working, especially given that we must implement it the exact same way as Discord.com for client compatibility, so if you find any bugs please open an issue in Spacebar server.
We would also be incredibly thankful for any assistance.
https://docs.spacebar.chat/faq/
So might not be ready for primetime. Voice is pretty critical to how I often use Discord. Video less so, but still important.
Sad times. I’ll be all in when a competitor gets all the essential features replicated.
Reddits stock performance since that decision isn’t likely anything that anyone would want to emulate.
