A few years ago I designed a way to detect bit-flips in Firefox crash reports and last year we deployed an actual memory tester that runs on user machines after the browser crashes. Today I was looking at the data that comes out of these tests and now I'm 100% positive that the heuristic is sound and a lot of the crashes we see are from users with bad memory or similarly flaky hardware. Here's a few numbers to give you an idea of how large the problem is. 🧵 1/5
Exactly, one of the ‘nerd edge cases’ (as the now removed comment mentioned) is that I use ZFS on my NAS.
There’s lots of checksumming and encryption. Errors in that process are not acceptable and could potentially cause data loss. Since the one of the points of using ZFS is the enhanced data integrity, not using ECC means losing out on that guarantee.
Bit rot is real, I’ve seen it first hand in plenty of cases. While I tend to blame the storage device, for infrequently accessed files that have been copied multiple times across different drives, I can’t rule out RAM or some other source of the corruption.
Improved overall system stability and data accuracy? With error correction, you can also push performance farther, since you can tolerate a certain amount of errors, instead of needing to aim for 0% error rate.
Probably not the use case you’d want to buy ECC for. I considered it for my homebuild because I figured I might process a lot of data at once, and I would appreciate the piece of mind… but I still decided no because I could get more ram for the same price if it were not ECC.
Let’s spend a ton of extra money minimizing edge case crashing in a browser!!!
🙄
I always love it when folks who don’t actually know what they’re talking about, comment like they do…
It’s not just the browser. This example is the browser, but it’s your entire system stability that is affected by random bit flips.
DDR5 pretty much has ECC built in.
Linus would disagree with you there. It’s got a form of ECC, but it isn’t the same as server RAM ECC.
When ECC no longer costs a mortgage, I will look into upgrading.
I don’t know about you, but I use my RAM for a lot more than a browser.
Removed by mod
Simple stuff like a calculator can be just as broken by a bitflip as more complex things. You wouldn’t want your calculator to say 1 + 1 = 2049.
If you want to rely on your computer, ECC RAM is required.
Exactly, one of the ‘nerd edge cases’ (as the now removed comment mentioned) is that I use ZFS on my NAS.
There’s lots of checksumming and encryption. Errors in that process are not acceptable and could potentially cause data loss. Since the one of the points of using ZFS is the enhanced data integrity, not using ECC means losing out on that guarantee.
Bit rot is real, I’ve seen it first hand in plenty of cases. While I tend to blame the storage device, for infrequently accessed files that have been copied multiple times across different drives, I can’t rule out RAM or some other source of the corruption.
Improved overall system stability and data accuracy? With error correction, you can also push performance farther, since you can tolerate a certain amount of errors, instead of needing to aim for 0% error rate.
I have lga 1356 xeon 2470v2 with 64gb ddr3 ecc ram, cheap and good setup
You enthusiasts server people, the dozens of you, are not the average consumer.
Who is talking about average consumers? We’re not trying to market something here.
Linus was. The answer is Linus. 🤦♂️ Jesus Christ guys. Two of you.
Yes and? Us here are talking over a federated social platform. None of us are the average consumer.
Yeah, and was Linus saying this should only apply to enthusiasts? I know, it’s hard to keep track of the thread.
Buddy gtfo with this attitude. This isn’t Reddit.
Yeah I can’t remember the last time my browser crashed. No way I’m upgrading all that hardware to avoid something that happens that seldom.
Probably not the use case you’d want to buy ECC for. I considered it for my homebuild because I figured I might process a lot of data at once, and I would appreciate the piece of mind… but I still decided no because I could get more ram for the same price if it were not ECC.