Voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with (edited in: the) least horrible consequences
and
Voting Democrat in the general election isn’t nearly enough to stop the ratchet-effecting into fascism, and a stand-for-nothing placeholder centrist Democrat president in 2028 will probably just lead to Trump-3/Vance/someone similarly horrible in 2032
are unfortunately both true.
Also, non-MAGA Americans - (EDIT: liberals, not the party leaders) and leftists alike - need better people skills. With infighting like this, Republicans hardly even need to lift a finger.
Voting Democrat in the general election isn’t nearly enough to stop the ratchet-effecting into fascism, and a stand-for-nothing placeholder centrist Democrat president in 2028 will probably just lead to Trump-3/Vance/someone similarly horrible in 2032
I mean, we could also just vote for a Democrat in 2032 and not have fascism.
Or, we could defeat fascism in the United States if the left would just get up off it’s ass and DO SOMETHING instead of just complaining like they always do.
I’m serious. What the hell has the left actually done in this country to change anything, to stop fascism, to defeat capitalisim? Where are the collectives so I can get a job without having to go to a soul sucking corporation? Where are the “citizen patrols” so we don’t need to rely on fascist police to protect people? When somebody loses their job where’s the help, the support structure? When someone gets evicted and their house gets stolen by the bank what are the leftists doing about it? Where’s the alternatives to “the system” you all say you’re going to undermine but never actually do? This is all stuff that I’ve literally been hearing from the left my entire life, where the hell is it? Is it ever going to actually happen? I haven’t seen shit from “the left” in this country except a bunch of stupid youtube videos about how the latest blockbuster movie or YA novel doesn’t have enough representation in it or how celebrity/politician/CEO XYZ is bad so you better not support them/listen to their music/read their latest book else you’re supporting [insert bad thing here.] You understand me not playing a video game or watching a TV show becasue someone bigoted was involved in it’s creation changes nothing, right? You understand standing around holding a sign blocking traffic isn’t going to change anything, right? None of that virtue signaling shit matters, except to make yourself feel good. You know what actually CAN change things? You know what actually CAN defeat fascim? Voting. But we can’t even get the left to get up off it’s ass and do that every four years.
So you don’t like Democrats? Would the president of Venezuela been kidnapped if Kamala were president? Would ICE be out in the street busting down doors and sending people to death prisions in Columbia? Would ICE be straight up running people over and shooting them? Would Elon Musk and his band of dipshits have gutted the social safety nets so millions of kids starve to death? Would bombs be murdering entire families in Iran right now? The answer to these questions is “NO,” and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem.
So please, don’t give me this shit about how voting democrats somehow “enables fascism” because that’s a load of B.S. 100 years ago it was LEFTISTS who made this country better. Because of LEFTISTS we have a 40 hour work week, and an 8 hour work day. LEFTISTS stopped child labor. LEFTISTS passed anti-corruption laws. LEFTSIST broke up the trusts, smashed monopolies, and stopped greedy corporations from spewing thier shit into the water and air. 100 years ago LEFTISTS got up off their asses and made the country a better place. And how did they do it? BY VOTING. Because protesting doesn’t change things, making tik tok videos that critique mainstream media doesn’t change things, throwing cans of soup at the Mona Lisa doesn’t change things - LAWS change things. And you pass laws by voting.
You don’t want to vote? Then don’t. But don’t give me this bullshit about how it doesn’t do anything, because it does. It’s the only god damned thing that actually changes things.
Lol, you mean those things that I literally mention in my post? Yeah like I said they did accomplish that, 100 years ago. Back when leftists actually, you know, voted.
What has the left actually accomplished, say in the last 30 years?
Elevating Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, your party cannot tolerate leftwing populism because it threatens the capitalist oligarchs (or “campaign donors”, I think is their preferred language) who own them, so they rigged their primaries to guarantee his loss, coalesced around an already-half-senile racist creep, and paved the way for the rise of rightwing populism as an inevitable response to the material reality that neoliberalism has failed the population.
Aside from that, the left has coordinated a very organized response to ICE terror across the country while mainstream liberals show up once every few months for No Kings protests which have no specific demands except to request Trump stop being something he already is not. They have also contributed significantly towards changing public opinion on the genocidal Zionazi regime, to the point where more Americans now sympathize with Palestinians than their occupiers, while your party continued funding the occupation and genocide and praised the police who beat nonviolent student protestors working towards that end.
The legalization of cannabis can’t be solely attributed to leftists, but they certainly contributed to that accomplishment as well. And the decriminalization of psychedelics even moreso.
Now let’s flip the question on you. What have the Democrats actually accomplished in the last 30 years?
Yeah so I asked “What has the left actually accomplished” not “what ineffectual actions are they doing to stop fascim after it’s already taken power.”
The legalization of cannabis can’t be solely attributed to leftists, but they certainly contributed to that accomplishment as well. And the decriminalization of psychedelics even moreso.
So those things were decriminalized by passing laws, correct? Kinda sounds like something you have to be politically active and vote for. Or do laws magically just pass when you stand around in the street with a cardboard sign?
Now let’s flip the question on you. What have the Democrats actually accomplished in the last 30 years?
Well, there was that thing you tried to take credit for, which is legalizing marijuana. We can also add legalizing gay marriage on top of that, those are two things that come to mind.
That’s a big assumption to be made about me, especially when I said
Voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with (edited in: the) least horrible consequences
(that is, one should vote for Democrats).
I believe voting is the bare minimum of political effort that should be expected of every citizen of an electoral country, and that tactical voting is sometimes necessary.
And I understand your disappointment with the American left. My comment is addressed to them as much as it is to you.
With party leadership being like it is, “everyone just needs to be nicer to each other” is functionally identical to “resign yourself to permanent irrelevancy while the people who supported genocide tell you who to vote for.”
Okay, so:
are unfortunately both true.
Also, non-MAGA Americans - (EDIT: liberals, not the party leaders) and leftists alike - need better people skills. With infighting like this, Republicans hardly even need to lift a finger.
If I can chose between certain defeat and possible defeat in 4 years, I chose the latter.
I agree - voting Democrat in the general election is the choice with the least horrible consequences. But it’s not enough.
I mean, we could also just vote for a Democrat in 2032 and not have fascism. Or, we could defeat fascism in the United States if the left would just get up off it’s ass and DO SOMETHING instead of just complaining like they always do.
I’m serious. What the hell has the left actually done in this country to change anything, to stop fascism, to defeat capitalisim? Where are the collectives so I can get a job without having to go to a soul sucking corporation? Where are the “citizen patrols” so we don’t need to rely on fascist police to protect people? When somebody loses their job where’s the help, the support structure? When someone gets evicted and their house gets stolen by the bank what are the leftists doing about it? Where’s the alternatives to “the system” you all say you’re going to undermine but never actually do? This is all stuff that I’ve literally been hearing from the left my entire life, where the hell is it? Is it ever going to actually happen? I haven’t seen shit from “the left” in this country except a bunch of stupid youtube videos about how the latest blockbuster movie or YA novel doesn’t have enough representation in it or how celebrity/politician/CEO XYZ is bad so you better not support them/listen to their music/read their latest book else you’re supporting [insert bad thing here.] You understand me not playing a video game or watching a TV show becasue someone bigoted was involved in it’s creation changes nothing, right? You understand standing around holding a sign blocking traffic isn’t going to change anything, right? None of that virtue signaling shit matters, except to make yourself feel good. You know what actually CAN change things? You know what actually CAN defeat fascim? Voting. But we can’t even get the left to get up off it’s ass and do that every four years.
So you don’t like Democrats? Would the president of Venezuela been kidnapped if Kamala were president? Would ICE be out in the street busting down doors and sending people to death prisions in Columbia? Would ICE be straight up running people over and shooting them? Would Elon Musk and his band of dipshits have gutted the social safety nets so millions of kids starve to death? Would bombs be murdering entire families in Iran right now? The answer to these questions is “NO,” and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem.
So please, don’t give me this shit about how voting democrats somehow “enables fascism” because that’s a load of B.S. 100 years ago it was LEFTISTS who made this country better. Because of LEFTISTS we have a 40 hour work week, and an 8 hour work day. LEFTISTS stopped child labor. LEFTISTS passed anti-corruption laws. LEFTSIST broke up the trusts, smashed monopolies, and stopped greedy corporations from spewing thier shit into the water and air. 100 years ago LEFTISTS got up off their asses and made the country a better place. And how did they do it? BY VOTING. Because protesting doesn’t change things, making tik tok videos that critique mainstream media doesn’t change things, throwing cans of soup at the Mona Lisa doesn’t change things - LAWS change things. And you pass laws by voting.
You don’t want to vote? Then don’t. But don’t give me this bullshit about how it doesn’t do anything, because it does. It’s the only god damned thing that actually changes things.
Well, the 5-day workweek and the end of child labor, to start.
Lol, you mean those things that I literally mention in my post? Yeah like I said they did accomplish that, 100 years ago. Back when leftists actually, you know, voted.
What has the left actually accomplished, say in the last 30 years?
Elevating Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately, your party cannot tolerate leftwing populism because it threatens the capitalist oligarchs (or “campaign donors”, I think is their preferred language) who own them, so they rigged their primaries to guarantee his loss, coalesced around an already-half-senile racist creep, and paved the way for the rise of rightwing populism as an inevitable response to the material reality that neoliberalism has failed the population.
Aside from that, the left has coordinated a very organized response to ICE terror across the country while mainstream liberals show up once every few months for No Kings protests which have no specific demands except to request Trump stop being something he already is not. They have also contributed significantly towards changing public opinion on the genocidal Zionazi regime, to the point where more Americans now sympathize with Palestinians than their occupiers, while your party continued funding the occupation and genocide and praised the police who beat nonviolent student protestors working towards that end.
The legalization of cannabis can’t be solely attributed to leftists, but they certainly contributed to that accomplishment as well. And the decriminalization of psychedelics even moreso.
Now let’s flip the question on you. What have the Democrats actually accomplished in the last 30 years?
Yeah so I asked “What has the left actually accomplished” not “what ineffectual actions are they doing to stop fascim after it’s already taken power.”
So those things were decriminalized by passing laws, correct? Kinda sounds like something you have to be politically active and vote for. Or do laws magically just pass when you stand around in the street with a cardboard sign?
Well, there was that thing you tried to take credit for, which is legalizing marijuana. We can also add legalizing gay marriage on top of that, those are two things that come to mind.
That’s a big assumption to be made about me, especially when I said
(that is, one should vote for Democrats).
I believe voting is the bare minimum of political effort that should be expected of every citizen of an electoral country, and that tactical voting is sometimes necessary.
And I understand your disappointment with the American left. My comment is addressed to them as much as it is to you.
One of those two groups runs the party and demands that we both vote for them no matter how bad they get, while simultaneously telling us to fuck off.
Edited for clarity, I was supposed to say “liberals”. Thanks for helping me realise that!
You’re right about the party leadership, too.
With party leadership being like it is, “everyone just needs to be nicer to each other” is functionally identical to “resign yourself to permanent irrelevancy while the people who supported genocide tell you who to vote for.”
I had something more like “try to approach liberals with kindness and understanding” in mind.
Because the current approach doesn’t seem to be working.