I am no fan of reddit but in this case Reddit appears to have championed this users anonymity going so far as to actively draw the ire of the administration.
Reddit refused to comply with the initial administrative subpoena
the Federal government came back with this grand jury subpoena and warned Reddit not to disclose the existence of the subpoena or they’d consider it interference in federal law enforcement
Reddit complied with this new legally binding subpoena, but did not comply with the demand to keep it a secret. In the contrary, they immediately alerted the user of the subpoena which allowed him time to immediately lawyer up.
You’re not wrong that you’re not safe posting on Reddit, but if this case is any indication you’re not any less safe posting in Reddit than any other site, including Lemmy.
You’re not wrong that you’re not safe posting on Reddit, but if this case is any indication you’re not any less safe posting in Reddit than any other site, including Lemmy.
You can choose the location (and thus legal jurisdiction) of your home instance, but yeah, in general, I think that people need to be aware that server operators on the Threadiverse are probably not going to fight legal battles on your behalf.
We had someone ask about turning over IP addresses to law enforcement a while back on lemmy.today. The lemmy.today server admin gave what I’d call probably a pretty accurate answer.
Lemmy instances are run by volunteers who wants to see a social media network without big tech.
I dont think you can trust any of those volunteers, including this one, to not comply with law enforcement. Thats not why we are running instances. Its about providing a platform without tracking, ads and algorithms for talking to other people and having a good time.
Don’t know man. I’m not making enough in donations to pay for the server costs, never mind hiring lawyers. I’ll deal with this when I have to 😅
There are platforms more-aimed at providing harder pseudonymity. I’d put Hyphanet fairly high on the list of “a pain in the ass to track a poster down due to technical barriers” list (though that comes with very real performance and latency and suchlike costs).
If you’re subpoenaed and a request for discovery is not met because you destroyed evidence, that comes with severe penalties. In court, you’d have to prove that you didn’t intentionally destroy data. You’ll have to find an attorney that can protect you against a government or powerful corporation.
Depending on the country and jurisdiction, intentional spoliation of data will lead to harsh penalties, criminal charges, expensive financial restitution, and jail time. Would you want to serve multiple years in jail and pay tens of thousands (or much more) in fines just to protect the data on your server? Would you want criminal charges and job loss, and the incredible difficulty of finding employment again when you get out of jail? Permanent criminal charges on your record for the rest of your life?
If yes, you’re very, very brave. Most other server owners would just comply. They’re already struggling to pay their bills, including serving Lemmy. Must be expensive trying to get legal representation when they’re ordered to turn over data.
Props to you, homie. I didn’t personally know about your instance, so your character is courageous and exemplary. I’d like to think my values are aligned with yours as I’ll stand up for trans people, too.
While the likelihood of being served a subpoena to turn over your data is slim, just be careful. Remember - even if someone else wrote it, it’s YOUR data. If you already don’t have a great moderation team on your server, make sure to set ground rules and stamp out calls to violence and other things that would get someone in loads of trouble. The state won’t target an online community, but persons making active threats to the state (e.g., a call for assassination of a public figure, organising violence and harm, etc.) will get you in loads of trouble.
If I was on your server and some dipshit was threatening assassinating a politician or organising a hit, you got served a subpoena, and you were getting ready to delete your instance, I’d jump in and request you to stop. I don’t think it’d be worth nuking the whole community and all the data so you get punished on behalf of that one dipshit. Don’t think it’d be worth having your life destroyed because one edgelord thinks it’s great to say stuff like that online without reprisal, in our state-sponsored surveillance system.
Edit: on mobile so fixed a bunch of typos
Edit 2:
On turning over data. In the discovery phase of litigation, they’re legally obligated to cull the request for information to what is relevant and in-scope. In my above example, the courts want the IP address and other identifiers of the dipshit that called for the assassination of a public figure. You’d only have to turn over the data for that one person, NOT everyone on your server. Just to put the facts out there.
Life is not safe. It’s pretty relatively safe, as compared to living under a lean-to in the woods with bears and disease carrying insects and such, and even that’s safer than people make it out to be. However, there are “dangerous things” out there, both in the woods and in the streets and in the organized crime / government. Are you more likely to die of a car crash, or a malicious action of some organized group, or a car crash arranged by some organized group? It’s really hard to be sure, but if the available information is anything close to accurate, you’re better off worrying about a car crash than a meteorite strike, or shark bite, or bad people targeting you.
I am no fan of reddit but in this case Reddit appears to have championed this users anonymity going so far as to actively draw the ire of the administration.
You’re not wrong that you’re not safe posting on Reddit, but if this case is any indication you’re not any less safe posting in Reddit than any other site, including Lemmy.
You can choose the location (and thus legal jurisdiction) of your home instance, but yeah, in general, I think that people need to be aware that server operators on the Threadiverse are probably not going to fight legal battles on your behalf.
We had someone ask about turning over IP addresses to law enforcement a while back on lemmy.today. The lemmy.today server admin gave what I’d call probably a pretty accurate answer.
https://lemmy.today/post/7255213
It linked to a similar question for lemmy.dbzer0.com:
There are platforms more-aimed at providing harder pseudonymity. I’d put Hyphanet fairly high on the list of “a pain in the ass to track a poster down due to technical barriers” list (though that comes with very real performance and latency and suchlike costs).
Why should the instance care about my ip? Why would they log it? Idem emails. Why tf do you care? We need a privacy preserving/enhancing server.
To answer for Quokk.au. If I had to, I’d delete the instance and all data before ever handing anything over. They can take me to court if need be.
If you’re subpoenaed and a request for discovery is not met because you destroyed evidence, that comes with severe penalties. In court, you’d have to prove that you didn’t intentionally destroy data. You’ll have to find an attorney that can protect you against a government or powerful corporation.
Depending on the country and jurisdiction, intentional spoliation of data will lead to harsh penalties, criminal charges, expensive financial restitution, and jail time. Would you want to serve multiple years in jail and pay tens of thousands (or much more) in fines just to protect the data on your server? Would you want criminal charges and job loss, and the incredible difficulty of finding employment again when you get out of jail? Permanent criminal charges on your record for the rest of your life?
If yes, you’re very, very brave. Most other server owners would just comply. They’re already struggling to pay their bills, including serving Lemmy. Must be expensive trying to get legal representation when they’re ordered to turn over data.
I run an instance filled with trans people and anarchists, I would risk a lot to protect them from the state.
Big props to you! Thank you for defendeing their rights.
Props to you, homie. I didn’t personally know about your instance, so your character is courageous and exemplary. I’d like to think my values are aligned with yours as I’ll stand up for trans people, too.
While the likelihood of being served a subpoena to turn over your data is slim, just be careful. Remember - even if someone else wrote it, it’s YOUR data. If you already don’t have a great moderation team on your server, make sure to set ground rules and stamp out calls to violence and other things that would get someone in loads of trouble. The state won’t target an online community, but persons making active threats to the state (e.g., a call for assassination of a public figure, organising violence and harm, etc.) will get you in loads of trouble.
If I was on your server and some dipshit was threatening assassinating a politician or organising a hit, you got served a subpoena, and you were getting ready to delete your instance, I’d jump in and request you to stop. I don’t think it’d be worth nuking the whole community and all the data so you get punished on behalf of that one dipshit. Don’t think it’d be worth having your life destroyed because one edgelord thinks it’s great to say stuff like that online without reprisal, in our state-sponsored surveillance system.
Edit: on mobile so fixed a bunch of typos
Edit 2: On turning over data. In the discovery phase of litigation, they’re legally obligated to cull the request for information to what is relevant and in-scope. In my above example, the courts want the IP address and other identifiers of the dipshit that called for the assassination of a public figure. You’d only have to turn over the data for that one person, NOT everyone on your server. Just to put the facts out there.
gary web sh()t himself in the hed 2 times
Your comment was auto-removed for profanity, an admin will review it and undelete it soon if there has been an error. Sorry for the inconvenience.
harder to make a international site comply though
Only if that country doesn’t have info sharing treaties with the US. So much of Europe isn’t any safer than in the US.
you are not safe posting here either
That is what I said
We know. We exist out of spite.
Life is not safe. It’s pretty relatively safe, as compared to living under a lean-to in the woods with bears and disease carrying insects and such, and even that’s safer than people make it out to be. However, there are “dangerous things” out there, both in the woods and in the streets and in the organized crime / government. Are you more likely to die of a car crash, or a malicious action of some organized group, or a car crash arranged by some organized group? It’s really hard to be sure, but if the available information is anything close to accurate, you’re better off worrying about a car crash than a meteorite strike, or shark bite, or bad people targeting you.
Isn’t Reddit owned by China? WTF is Trump going to do?
Reddit is headquartered in San Francisco
Reddit is owned by Vanguard, Blackrock, JP Morgan, etc
You’d really think they could afford hiring some moderators.