The war in Gaza should end. The current government is bonkers. What‘s happening in the West Bank is unacceptable. I could go on for a long time.
Few people are interested in learning about or discussing the details of what’s happening or discuss actual policies. Fueling your hate of Israel as the ultimate evil is far easier and more popular.
The main thing I have issue with is people wanting to destroy Israel. Antizionism wants to destroy Israel. That sentiment is what lead to October 7. Hamas tried to destroy Israel with absolutely disastrous results.
Two states, coexistence, peace are the way to achieve a better life for Palestinians. The desire to destroy Israel only leads to suffering and death. As history has proven over and over.
Self styled Pro Palestinians love moral grand standing, but don’t give a shit about actually improving the lives of Palestinians.
I am also against genociding Israelis, however a lot of the stuff you post tends to be very pro-Israel.
Also it is typical that I get called an antizionist by anti-Germans but a zionist by antizionists when I am in fact a non-Zionist and it triggers people that I am not explicitly pro- or anti-Israel.
I however recommend that you properly read about the Nakba. Both sides were bad, however groups like Betar did really, really bad shit.
The land should be both for ethnic Jews and Arabs and not for only one ethnicity.
There‘s no lack of anti Israel posts on Lemmy. It’s filled with anti Israel hatred.
I try to show people that they might not know the full story.
Also it is typical that I get called an antizionist by anti-Germans but a zionist by antizionists when I am in fact a non-Zionist and it triggers people that I am not explicitly pro- or anti-Israel.
Yes, this conflict is extremely polarized and a lot of it hinges on purity tests. The meaning of words like Zionist and genocide have strayed from their original definitions. People prefer to endulge in outrage and hate.
I have read several books on the Nakba. It was terrible, but not worse than other wars. The way it’s often portrayed is one-sided and insincere. Righteous victims is the best book on the topic, I think.
The Zionists weren’t acting in a vacuum, but were threatened by enemies from all sides that had promised to obliterate them. They were fighting for survival.
A civil war had been going on since at least 1947 with the Haganah staying mostly on the defensive.
The diplomatic efforts like the UN partition plan were rejected by the Arabs but accepted by the Zionists. The local Palestinians were sacrificed by the desire for glory and territorial ambitions of the neighboring countries.
Portraying the Nakba as a uniquely horrible event is insincere. The population transfers between Greece and Turkey, India and Pakistan, and the millions forcibly displaced all over Europe happened around the same time.
The land should be both for ethnic Jews and Arabs and not for only one ethnicity
Agreed. The most viable path towards this is two states, ideally each with a minority ethnicity from the other side. One state or a union might be possible some future day. Security for all people is the prerequisite for peaceful cooperation and coexistence.
20% of Israeli citizens are not Jews, but mostly local Arabs. Arabs are further split in Bedouins, Druze, Christians, Sunni. There are also other long time minorities like Armenians and Samaritans. Especially the Druze are very well integrated into Israeli society.
The Palestinian Authority and Hamas in Gaza doesn’t allow any Jews as citizens, including those who had lived there before 1948. De facto the West Bank has a considerable Jewish minority already in the settlements.
Palestinians can’t win by force of arms. They have tried many times and they lost every time. The method of appealing to the international community to pressure Israel has yielded modest results, mainly in damaging Israel‘s image. It’s a delusion to believe the UN will give Palestinians a state one day. There was a chance in 1947, but they didn’t take it.
The approach that’s been neglected is direct cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis from the ground up. Sadly that’s commonly opposed as normalization and contrary to BDS. Billions of dollars were offered to invest in industrial parks where Israelis and Palestinians would work together. This was rejected as normalization. Grassroots Israeli-Palestinian peace groups are severely hindered because the Palestinians have to do it in secret and hide their identity.
The failure to accept one of the peace deals offered, the second intifada, repeated wars in Gaza, and finally the Al Aqsa Flood on October 7th have convinced a majority of Israelis that peace isn’t possible.
Palestinians don’t need to convince the UN and world opinion of their cause. They need to convince the Israeli voters.
You told me to read a book, let me also recommend one to you to broaden your horizon: The War of Return by Einat Wilf.
The Pro Palestinian movement has a huge blindspot. It never discusses Palestinians in a way unrelated to Israel. The well-being of Palestinians living outside Palestine is ignored. Internal Palestinian politics are never discussed beyond accusing the PA of corruption and collaboration.
The war in Gaza should end. The current government is bonkers. What‘s happening in the West Bank is unacceptable. I could go on for a long time.
Few people are interested in learning about or discussing the details of what’s happening or discuss actual policies. Fueling your hate of Israel as the ultimate evil is far easier and more popular.
The main thing I have issue with is people wanting to destroy Israel. Antizionism wants to destroy Israel. That sentiment is what lead to October 7. Hamas tried to destroy Israel with absolutely disastrous results.
Two states, coexistence, peace are the way to achieve a better life for Palestinians. The desire to destroy Israel only leads to suffering and death. As history has proven over and over.
Self styled Pro Palestinians love moral grand standing, but don’t give a shit about actually improving the lives of Palestinians.
I am also against genociding Israelis, however a lot of the stuff you post tends to be very pro-Israel.
Also it is typical that I get called an antizionist by anti-Germans but a zionist by antizionists when I am in fact a non-Zionist and it triggers people that I am not explicitly pro- or anti-Israel.
I however recommend that you properly read about the Nakba. Both sides were bad, however groups like Betar did really, really bad shit.
The land should be both for ethnic Jews and Arabs and not for only one ethnicity.
There‘s no lack of anti Israel posts on Lemmy. It’s filled with anti Israel hatred.
I try to show people that they might not know the full story.
Yes, this conflict is extremely polarized and a lot of it hinges on purity tests. The meaning of words like Zionist and genocide have strayed from their original definitions. People prefer to endulge in outrage and hate.
I have read several books on the Nakba. It was terrible, but not worse than other wars. The way it’s often portrayed is one-sided and insincere. Righteous victims is the best book on the topic, I think.
The Zionists weren’t acting in a vacuum, but were threatened by enemies from all sides that had promised to obliterate them. They were fighting for survival.
A civil war had been going on since at least 1947 with the Haganah staying mostly on the defensive.
The diplomatic efforts like the UN partition plan were rejected by the Arabs but accepted by the Zionists. The local Palestinians were sacrificed by the desire for glory and territorial ambitions of the neighboring countries.
Portraying the Nakba as a uniquely horrible event is insincere. The population transfers between Greece and Turkey, India and Pakistan, and the millions forcibly displaced all over Europe happened around the same time.
Agreed. The most viable path towards this is two states, ideally each with a minority ethnicity from the other side. One state or a union might be possible some future day. Security for all people is the prerequisite for peaceful cooperation and coexistence.
20% of Israeli citizens are not Jews, but mostly local Arabs. Arabs are further split in Bedouins, Druze, Christians, Sunni. There are also other long time minorities like Armenians and Samaritans. Especially the Druze are very well integrated into Israeli society.
The Palestinian Authority and Hamas in Gaza doesn’t allow any Jews as citizens, including those who had lived there before 1948. De facto the West Bank has a considerable Jewish minority already in the settlements.
Palestinians can’t win by force of arms. They have tried many times and they lost every time. The method of appealing to the international community to pressure Israel has yielded modest results, mainly in damaging Israel‘s image. It’s a delusion to believe the UN will give Palestinians a state one day. There was a chance in 1947, but they didn’t take it.
The approach that’s been neglected is direct cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis from the ground up. Sadly that’s commonly opposed as normalization and contrary to BDS. Billions of dollars were offered to invest in industrial parks where Israelis and Palestinians would work together. This was rejected as normalization. Grassroots Israeli-Palestinian peace groups are severely hindered because the Palestinians have to do it in secret and hide their identity.
The failure to accept one of the peace deals offered, the second intifada, repeated wars in Gaza, and finally the Al Aqsa Flood on October 7th have convinced a majority of Israelis that peace isn’t possible.
Palestinians don’t need to convince the UN and world opinion of their cause. They need to convince the Israeli voters.
You told me to read a book, let me also recommend one to you to broaden your horizon: The War of Return by Einat Wilf.
The Pro Palestinian movement has a huge blindspot. It never discusses Palestinians in a way unrelated to Israel. The well-being of Palestinians living outside Palestine is ignored. Internal Palestinian politics are never discussed beyond accusing the PA of corruption and collaboration.