What you mean is: “nobody in this thread said those words verbatim.”
I think we’re all intelligent enough to see through that flimsy misdirection.
Otherwise, how many times can someone simply say “nobody said that” in response to women calling out what they perceive as misogynistic undertones?
People like you have literally invented the word “dogwhistle” to point out things that people supposedly said that nobody actually said. So take your “nobody said that” somewhere else.
Yes, nobody said that verbatim. The post generally complained about “gender war crap” and didn’t restrict it to the second half of the post in any way, I don’t see where you get that from.
You baselessly assumed that OP would praise the first part of the image if it was just that.
More and more men are getting sick and tired of women who think they are behaving like other men, but who are actually just being colossal assholes.
And if we were to hold them to the same degree of accountability as men are, they have total meltdowns. The “who hurt you?” being exhibit № 1 of someone facing the discomfort of true accountability, and desperately trying to deflect and reframe.
Healthy boundaries can be deeply offensive to the privileged.
Yeah, it’s funny how many of these comments are complaining about what the guy said, while conveniently ignoring that the woman posted first and he’s just clapping back.
How does it go, don’t dish out what you can’t handle having dished back?
If we deconstruct the process, it looks something like this:
Some guys act like colossal assholes
Guys who call them out get ridiculed as “nice guys.”
Colossal assholes get all the attention.
Women generalize “colossal assholes” as “men.”
Guys who say “not all men” get ridiculed and called “redpilled incel chud.”
Keyboard pseudo-feminist influencers confuse “smash the patriarchy” with “be the patriarchy” (“gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss, slay gurl slay”).
Women get duped into thinking pseudo-feminism is real feminism, and begin acting like the colossal assholes that they initially criticized.
Guys call out this behavior, and women go “OMG! History! Oppression! Women are subjugated by the patriarchy grbhrhbrhh!” Or “Men deserve to be treated like shit because women have been treated like shit by men!” And “LOL ‘not all men’ LOSER stop mansplaining!!1!1!1!!” Oh and don’t forget “Your feelings/problems don’t matter because you’re a man, so suck it up buttercup, be a Real Man™!!!” (Literally promoting toxic masculinity, the opposite of feminism).
Some guys get sick of this treatment, give up on trying, commiserate with other guys with similar experiences, and everyone takes this as confirmation bias that they were always misogynists and deserve all the ridicule and scorn that they’re loaded with.
The main downside is that № 9 is a gateway to the redpill “manosphere”, which if they enter into incel communities this can go very bad for their mental health and interpersonal relationships.
It’s why I have always pushed people like this to the MGTOW communities, which are all about camaraderie, self-improvement, rational self-assessment, setting healthy boundaries, and cultivating intrinsic (internal) motivation such that companionship of any kind switches from a psychological necessity to a value-added prospect, where the man can trivially walk away if the value just isn’t there.
Yes, exactly. I’ve been pointing this out for years.
Guys who feel rejected and marginalized are relegated to spaces where it’s mostly an echo chamber of other guys like them. Most of these guys are vulnerable due to social isolation, loneliness, and the mental health issues that inevitably result (which is an empirically established fact within the field of psychology, so I’m tired of hearing people act like it doesn’t fucking matter).
Predatory “manfluencers” know this, so they go to these spaces to poach and radicalize “loser virgins,” basically by negging them and saying that they can “coach” them on how to not be a loser. “Be like me, get laid, then you’re no longer an incel and people will finally like you.”
It’s a lie, obviously, but it works on large numbers and that’s why you see this huge uptick on disillusioned outcasts getting absorbed into these toxic spaces.
But whenever I call that out, people say things like “Why should I have any sympathy for these sexists,” which not only partially conflates the “losers” with the predatory abusers manipulating them, it also ignores the chronology of the whole thing. These guys aren’t born misogynist. They get radicalized, because they were vulnerable. And people ignore that my argument is directed towards addressing that vulnerability which fosters wide-spread radicalization; not to accepting misogyny from people who are already radicalized.
Or they accuse me of some sort of victim blaming, as if I was trying to say that women get abused because they reject men. That’s a severe distortion of what I was saying. Abuse is not excusable. But it can be prevented, and part of that prevention should be preventing widespread radicalization by giving young men spaces where they feel appreciated and like they belong, so that they don’t wind up in the echo chambers where they get poached by the manosphere.
Or people say “Why should we help someone who even would be radicalized?” But that ignores the psychology of radicalization. It can happen to anyone who’s placed in a vulnerable position for long enough, and social isolation is one of the major indicators for at-risk individuals. Everyone has their psychological limit; some people just never get pushed anywhere near theirs. That needs to be recognized as a privilege. Someone might be incredibly strong psychologically, but if they’re isolated long enough and constantly subjected to ridicule and scorn, then they very much can reach their breaking point. And that’s when the abusers sweep in with their negging and their bait-and-switch to get these guys hooked on the bullshit they’re selling.
Or I make any of these arguments, and people don’t even listen and just assume I’m trying to justify misogyny and abuse, and they label me as an incel (because who else would think about this?), and since they equate “incel” with the abusers who prey on them, that’s a socially sanctionable label, and therefore my own isolation and mental illness become a moral failing on my part, which everyone holds against me.
And I swear, if I wasn’t psychologically stronger, I could very much have wound up radicalized in the same way. I almost did a few times. The initial negging and carrot-waving can be very insidious and hard to detect early on.
But since I’ve been abused myself by toxic machismo assholes, I had a deep-seated burning hatred for them. I would never join them. I’d literally kill myself first, and I almost have a few times. So even though everyone else hates me and rejects me because they think I’m already one of them (just for being lonely and isolated, imagine that!), and that makes me precisely the target demographic that those abusers try to radicalize, I’ll never be one of them.
So I’m caught somewhere in the middle, with no friends, trying to objectively look at the problem and describe it with clarity so that people smarter than myself can determine how to adequately address it.
And simply because I don’t parrot the same vitriol that everyone else does, and choose instead to identify the root of the problem so that a real solution can be found, I’m flamed for it and the cycle of isolation continues.
Edit:
BTW, I don’t know anything about MGTOW, but I’d say most men’s lib movements often get co-opted by the far-right because liberal and leftist guys are strongly discouraged from participating in any sort of community like that.
Even if it starts in a healthy way, people label it as part of the manosphere, so all the healthy guys leave, and the only ones left are the ones who are unstable/vulnerable and the ones who want to prey on these easy targets. The latter are usually the die-hard sexists which the movements ultimately wind up being known for.
Edit 2:
Yeah, it looks like Wikipedia says MGTOW is part of the manosphere and dominated by the far-right, even though a cursory inspection seems to indicate that it’s just a bunch of men choosing not to prioritize dating and romance in their lives.
I don’t know enough about it to say one way or the other, but I wouldn’t be surprised if men who decide they don’t need women in their lives are labeled as misogynist (even though men who do believe they need women in their lives are also called misogynist… go figure…)
Honestly, I wish there were proper places for people like us. I don’t have the grace to write as much and as well as you, but you hit the nail right in the head, and see the whole picture.
And that stuff happens pretty much everywhere, I got lucky I am autistic, bisexual, got raised by a very hands-on dad, and therefore, far more open to male bonding than your average guy.
The whole system has flaws, and most people are too blind to see we are all being pitted against each other and farmed for content, attention and ad revenue.
I would like to find a true MGTOW community without bullshit strewn in. Last time I tried joining a community of that sort, all their looksmaxing stuff made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m almost 40 and a little bit pudgy, but I’m happy with my current body.
Welcome to the place for people like us! It’s all we have, really, and some people want to take even that away…
(You’ll see some people viciously shaming others for commiserating about loneliness online; as if they can’t just ignore it and move on? No, they have to comment and express their disapproval that someone would have a problem they don’t personally face and seek a sense of community and belonging in the only spaces where they might find others with similar experiences. As if the internet is only for approved circlejerk content, and they only approve of the ones they understand).
Last time I tried joining a community of that sort, all their looksmaxing stuff made me feel very uncomfortable.
Yeah, it’s so strange how “I never developed social skills due to social isolation and thus I’ve been perpetually rejected by society and as a result have never been able to catch up on social skills” always gets the same cookie cutter answers: “Just shave bro, get a haircut, dress fly, go to the gym, etc.”
As if the only viable solution is “conform or die,” while simultaneously also ignoring the key component which is the lack of social skills, and replacing them with shallow vanity and social prescriptions for what a “normal” person should look and act like.
I’m not wearing the fucking clothes anyone says that I have to to be respectable, and if they’ll only respect me for wearing certain brands then I don’t want their respect. The same goes for haircuts, and shoes, and music, and hobbies. I’m not a fucking automaton and I won’t act like one just to fit in.
And the fact that that’s so absurd is a testament to how far society has degraded! In the nineties, grunge was cool. Automatons were lame.
Every decade had their beatniks, their hippies, their punks, their indies. What do we have now? Corporate astroturfing and mindless shills seem to be the vast majority, and everyone else is algorithmically sidelined. Downright shunned in person.
Yeah, it looks like Wikipedia says MGTOW is part of the manosphere and dominated by the far-right,
I think that specific article takes the prize for being by far the most blatantly inaccurate and downright socially poisoned article on Wikipedia.
It’s an extreme example of gender bigotry bias, and ideological “poisoning of the well” by female supremacists. It’s their straw man that they can point to and claim MGTOW is “misogynistic”.
The problem with most redpill communities is that they are recruiting fields for alt-right troglodytes. So most any incel forum will also be awash with appeals to emotion to blind the young men in there to the underlying alt-right messaging.
But MGTOW? Sure, some men are right-wing. But it’s hard to be of the right when the focus is on genuine self-improvement and brutally rational analysis.
After all, reality itself has a strong left-leaning bias.
I’m all for continuing where Epstein left off, minus the child diddling and making a blue-eyed race, but I can actually understand the “they think wrong, it’s their brains, finally found a plan how to kill off the poors” comes from.
Humanity is doomed. If sexism makes it extinct faster, then it is a good thing. If we fight it, we just prolong the suffering.
Humans will never be just, and I now feel relief knowing that you will drive yourselves extinct.
Woman makes joke at expense of men.
Everyone: “Yas gurl slay.”
Man responds with joke at expense of women.
Also everyone: “Omg, misogyny! Quit it with this gender war bs!”
It’s a gender war whenever a man says something dumb, but when a woman says anything misandristic then all of a sudden “there is no gender war, wdym”
I’m tired, boss.
nobody said that
What you mean is: “nobody in this thread said those words verbatim.”
I think we’re all intelligent enough to see through that flimsy misdirection.
Otherwise, how many times can someone simply say “nobody said that” in response to women calling out what they perceive as misogynistic undertones?
People like you have literally invented the word “dogwhistle” to point out things that people supposedly said that nobody actually said. So take your “nobody said that” somewhere else.
Yes, nobody said that verbatim. The post generally complained about “gender war crap” and didn’t restrict it to the second half of the post in any way, I don’t see where you get that from.
You baselessly assumed that OP would praise the first part of the image if it was just that.
I didn’t assume anything about OP.
And you didn’t read the comments, apparently.
More and more men are getting sick and tired of women who think they are behaving like other men, but who are actually just being colossal assholes.
And if we were to hold them to the same degree of accountability as men are, they have total meltdowns. The “who hurt you?” being exhibit № 1 of someone facing the discomfort of true accountability, and desperately trying to deflect and reframe.
Healthy boundaries can be deeply offensive to the privileged.
Yeah, it’s funny how many of these comments are complaining about what the guy said, while conveniently ignoring that the woman posted first and he’s just clapping back.
How does it go, don’t dish out what you can’t handle having dished back?
If we deconstruct the process, it looks something like this:
Some guys act like colossal assholes
Guys who call them out get ridiculed as “nice guys.”
Colossal assholes get all the attention.
Women generalize “colossal assholes” as “men.”
Guys who say “not all men” get ridiculed and called “redpilled incel chud.”
Keyboard pseudo-feminist influencers confuse “smash the patriarchy” with “be the patriarchy” (“gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss, slay gurl slay”).
Women get duped into thinking pseudo-feminism is real feminism, and begin acting like the colossal assholes that they initially criticized.
Guys call out this behavior, and women go “OMG! History! Oppression! Women are subjugated by the patriarchy grbhrhbrhh!” Or “Men deserve to be treated like shit because women have been treated like shit by men!” And “LOL ‘not all men’ LOSER stop mansplaining!!1!1!1!!” Oh and don’t forget “Your feelings/problems don’t matter because you’re a man, so suck it up buttercup, be a Real Man™!!!” (Literally promoting toxic masculinity, the opposite of feminism).
Some guys get sick of this treatment, give up on trying, commiserate with other guys with similar experiences, and everyone takes this as confirmation bias that they were always misogynists and deserve all the ridicule and scorn that they’re loaded with.
Can’t argue with a single point.
The main downside is that № 9 is a gateway to the redpill “manosphere”, which if they enter into incel communities this can go very bad for their mental health and interpersonal relationships.
It’s why I have always pushed people like this to the MGTOW communities, which are all about camaraderie, self-improvement, rational self-assessment, setting healthy boundaries, and cultivating intrinsic (internal) motivation such that companionship of any kind switches from a psychological necessity to a value-added prospect, where the man can trivially walk away if the value just isn’t there.
Yes, exactly. I’ve been pointing this out for years.
Guys who feel rejected and marginalized are relegated to spaces where it’s mostly an echo chamber of other guys like them. Most of these guys are vulnerable due to social isolation, loneliness, and the mental health issues that inevitably result (which is an empirically established fact within the field of psychology, so I’m tired of hearing people act like it doesn’t fucking matter).
Predatory “manfluencers” know this, so they go to these spaces to poach and radicalize “loser virgins,” basically by negging them and saying that they can “coach” them on how to not be a loser. “Be like me, get laid, then you’re no longer an incel and people will finally like you.”
It’s a lie, obviously, but it works on large numbers and that’s why you see this huge uptick on disillusioned outcasts getting absorbed into these toxic spaces.
But whenever I call that out, people say things like “Why should I have any sympathy for these sexists,” which not only partially conflates the “losers” with the predatory abusers manipulating them, it also ignores the chronology of the whole thing. These guys aren’t born misogynist. They get radicalized, because they were vulnerable. And people ignore that my argument is directed towards addressing that vulnerability which fosters wide-spread radicalization; not to accepting misogyny from people who are already radicalized.
Or they accuse me of some sort of victim blaming, as if I was trying to say that women get abused because they reject men. That’s a severe distortion of what I was saying. Abuse is not excusable. But it can be prevented, and part of that prevention should be preventing widespread radicalization by giving young men spaces where they feel appreciated and like they belong, so that they don’t wind up in the echo chambers where they get poached by the manosphere.
Or people say “Why should we help someone who even would be radicalized?” But that ignores the psychology of radicalization. It can happen to anyone who’s placed in a vulnerable position for long enough, and social isolation is one of the major indicators for at-risk individuals. Everyone has their psychological limit; some people just never get pushed anywhere near theirs. That needs to be recognized as a privilege. Someone might be incredibly strong psychologically, but if they’re isolated long enough and constantly subjected to ridicule and scorn, then they very much can reach their breaking point. And that’s when the abusers sweep in with their negging and their bait-and-switch to get these guys hooked on the bullshit they’re selling.
Or I make any of these arguments, and people don’t even listen and just assume I’m trying to justify misogyny and abuse, and they label me as an incel (because who else would think about this?), and since they equate “incel” with the abusers who prey on them, that’s a socially sanctionable label, and therefore my own isolation and mental illness become a moral failing on my part, which everyone holds against me.
And I swear, if I wasn’t psychologically stronger, I could very much have wound up radicalized in the same way. I almost did a few times. The initial negging and carrot-waving can be very insidious and hard to detect early on.
But since I’ve been abused myself by toxic machismo assholes, I had a deep-seated burning hatred for them. I would never join them. I’d literally kill myself first, and I almost have a few times. So even though everyone else hates me and rejects me because they think I’m already one of them (just for being lonely and isolated, imagine that!), and that makes me precisely the target demographic that those abusers try to radicalize, I’ll never be one of them.
So I’m caught somewhere in the middle, with no friends, trying to objectively look at the problem and describe it with clarity so that people smarter than myself can determine how to adequately address it.
And simply because I don’t parrot the same vitriol that everyone else does, and choose instead to identify the root of the problem so that a real solution can be found, I’m flamed for it and the cycle of isolation continues.
Edit:
BTW, I don’t know anything about MGTOW, but I’d say most men’s lib movements often get co-opted by the far-right because liberal and leftist guys are strongly discouraged from participating in any sort of community like that.
Even if it starts in a healthy way, people label it as part of the manosphere, so all the healthy guys leave, and the only ones left are the ones who are unstable/vulnerable and the ones who want to prey on these easy targets. The latter are usually the die-hard sexists which the movements ultimately wind up being known for.
Edit 2:
Yeah, it looks like Wikipedia says MGTOW is part of the manosphere and dominated by the far-right, even though a cursory inspection seems to indicate that it’s just a bunch of men choosing not to prioritize dating and romance in their lives.
I don’t know enough about it to say one way or the other, but I wouldn’t be surprised if men who decide they don’t need women in their lives are labeled as misogynist (even though men who do believe they need women in their lives are also called misogynist… go figure…)
Honestly, I wish there were proper places for people like us. I don’t have the grace to write as much and as well as you, but you hit the nail right in the head, and see the whole picture.
And that stuff happens pretty much everywhere, I got lucky I am autistic, bisexual, got raised by a very hands-on dad, and therefore, far more open to male bonding than your average guy.
The whole system has flaws, and most people are too blind to see we are all being pitted against each other and farmed for content, attention and ad revenue.
I would like to find a true MGTOW community without bullshit strewn in. Last time I tried joining a community of that sort, all their looksmaxing stuff made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m almost 40 and a little bit pudgy, but I’m happy with my current body.
Welcome to the place for people like us! It’s all we have, really, and some people want to take even that away…
(You’ll see some people viciously shaming others for commiserating about loneliness online; as if they can’t just ignore it and move on? No, they have to comment and express their disapproval that someone would have a problem they don’t personally face and seek a sense of community and belonging in the only spaces where they might find others with similar experiences. As if the internet is only for approved circlejerk content, and they only approve of the ones they understand).
Yeah, it’s so strange how “I never developed social skills due to social isolation and thus I’ve been perpetually rejected by society and as a result have never been able to catch up on social skills” always gets the same cookie cutter answers: “Just shave bro, get a haircut, dress fly, go to the gym, etc.”
As if the only viable solution is “conform or die,” while simultaneously also ignoring the key component which is the lack of social skills, and replacing them with shallow vanity and social prescriptions for what a “normal” person should look and act like.
I’m not wearing the fucking clothes anyone says that I have to to be respectable, and if they’ll only respect me for wearing certain brands then I don’t want their respect. The same goes for haircuts, and shoes, and music, and hobbies. I’m not a fucking automaton and I won’t act like one just to fit in.
And the fact that that’s so absurd is a testament to how far society has degraded! In the nineties, grunge was cool. Automatons were lame.
Every decade had their beatniks, their hippies, their punks, their indies. What do we have now? Corporate astroturfing and mindless shills seem to be the vast majority, and everyone else is algorithmically sidelined. Downright shunned in person.
The corpos already won, dude.
I think that specific article takes the prize for being by far the most blatantly inaccurate and downright socially poisoned article on Wikipedia.
It’s an extreme example of gender bigotry bias, and ideological “poisoning of the well” by female supremacists. It’s their straw man that they can point to and claim MGTOW is “misogynistic”.
The problem with most redpill communities is that they are recruiting fields for alt-right troglodytes. So most any incel forum will also be awash with appeals to emotion to blind the young men in there to the underlying alt-right messaging.
But MGTOW? Sure, some men are right-wing. But it’s hard to be of the right when the focus is on genuine self-improvement and brutally rational analysis.
After all, reality itself has a strong left-leaning bias.
Glad to hear I’m not the only one that sees through it. It really feels like it at times. That’s part of the reason why isolation is so toxic.
Yes. The long way of saying there is a double standard.
Yes, but if I just say “there’s a double standard” then people go “nuh uh! quit it with this fake gender war bs.”
I’m all for continuing where Epstein left off, minus the child diddling and making a blue-eyed race, but I can actually understand the “they think wrong, it’s their brains, finally found a plan how to kill off the poors” comes from.
Humanity is doomed. If sexism makes it extinct faster, then it is a good thing. If we fight it, we just prolong the suffering.
Humans will never be just, and I now feel relief knowing that you will drive yourselves extinct.
who hurt you?
Reddit answers are so le funny
Many people. Almost too many to bear.