It’s not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don’t share them at all.
Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.
the primary “authoritarian” government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that’s why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
you’re not wrong – china’s billionaire count is up. but here’s the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov’t already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it’ll happen again and again. china’s churn is fast, but the pattern’s the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
so much to to unpack, so i’m going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china “murders anyone they disagree with” isn’t evidence – it’s hyperbole. china’s authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn’t help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after “failed policies cost tens of millions of lives.” that’s a enormous, contested historical claim you’re dropping like it’s settled fact; it’s not.
third, “china is great because of the us” is incredible oversimplification. china’s growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade – yes, including with the us, but that’s mutual benefit, not charity.
you’re right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china – believe me, they’re more than damning enough on their own.
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you “team” doesn’t mean everyone else is.
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
“Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion.”
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
you’re not wrong about everything you’ve stated, but you’re also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea’s an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that’s not a neutral source – it’s a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia’s sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false – it’s not – but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure – $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn’t invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that “china is great because of the us” is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you’re confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy’s kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length – while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.
Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don’t confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other’s beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.
It’s not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don’t share them at all.
@Doomsider@lemmy.world
the primary “authoritarian” government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that’s why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.
I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
you’re not wrong – china’s billionaire count is up. but here’s the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov’t already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.
that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it’ll happen again and again. china’s churn is fast, but the pattern’s the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.
The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.
Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.
What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.
China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.
The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.
so much to to unpack, so i’m going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.
first, claiming china “murders anyone they disagree with” isn’t evidence – it’s hyperbole. china’s authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn’t help your argument.
second, you say china turned to capitalism after “failed policies cost tens of millions of lives.” that’s a enormous, contested historical claim you’re dropping like it’s settled fact; it’s not.
third, “china is great because of the us” is incredible oversimplification. china’s growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade – yes, including with the us, but that’s mutual benefit, not charity.
you’re right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china – believe me, they’re more than damning enough on their own.
https://www.goldsea.com/article_details/china-executed-14-billionaires-for-corruption
Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you “team” doesn’t mean everyone else is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.
“Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion.”
Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.
I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.
you’re not wrong about everything you’ve stated, but you’re also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.
goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea’s an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that’s not a neutral source – it’s a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.
wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia’s sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false – it’s not – but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.
the us investment figure – $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn’t invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that “china is great because of the us” is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you’re confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.
nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy’s kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length – while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.
Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.
I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don’t confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.
I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.
I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other’s beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.
I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.