President Trump's visit to China highlights a key tension for American decision makers: how to manage China’s growing prowess in sectors like the auto industry.
This is what happens when you let the oil industry and their lobbyists have unfettered control of the narrative and legislation .You get a huge number of politicians falling into their pockets, and progress is stymied at every turn.
It’s actually kind of surprising America has made the limited progress on EVs that we have. But it’s nowhere near enough. And now we are paying the piper.
Lemmy has lots of opinions about vehicles with no actual knowledge. All US companies went in on EVs but you guys bought >3M pickup trucks instead, then you blame US industry for not making the cars you won’t buy.
Perverse fuel economy legislation and optimizing for high profit luxury vehicles meant consumers were choosing between a $20-30k ICE truck/suv or a $40k stripped trim EV.
In 2024 (when automakers were finally getting off their asses), only 10 BEV models were under $40k, most with pitiful range and only 2 just under $30k.
For comparison with ICE, there were 18 compact cars under $30k and 13 trucks under $40k. You could buy TWO Ford Mavericks for the price of an Ioniq 5 or a mid-trim Ford Mach-E.
American voters are doing their part to “help,” crying about “high” fuel prices (less than half of what they are here) when one of the big issues is that undertaxation of petrol has led to underinvestment in alternatives.
I mean, what do you want us to do? Index tax taxes or make them percentage based so they don’t go 33 years being eaten away by inflation? Create a system that actually pays for the roads it needs to exist instead of saddling the future with massive debt? Not make it legally difficult to impossible for any alternative forms of transport to exist or at least be usable by sane people? That all sounds impossible. /s
This has very little to do with oil industry lobbyists, and a whole lot to do with the whole world outsourcing their production and labor to a country with no worker protections.
That would explain Chinese dominance in vehicles in general, not EVs in particular.
Also, Chinese EV manufacturing facilities are so efficient precisely because they’re so incredibly highly automated, nothing to do with worker rights regardless of your opinion of China.
That would explain Chinese dominance in vehicles in general, not EVs in particular.
Do ya see a bunch of Chinese ICE vehicles running around?
Also, Chinese EV manufacturing facilities are so efficient precisely because they’re so incredibly highly automated
They’re efficient because they have no concept of workers’ rights or IP. Not because they’re a country full of geniuses, and not because Big Oil is keeping them down, regardless of your opinion on China.
There are plenty of Chinese ICE vehicles, what on earth are you talking about ? MG got rolling here in the UK with ICE before releasing hybrids and EVs, Chery only have ICE and hybrids here etc etc Same in Australia with BYD and the rest.
Nah, you’re just a propagandized westerner who hasn’t done the most cursory research on the degree of automation in Chinese EV industry. Enjoy malding in your ignorance while your country’s industry crashes and burns
Chinese EVs are cheaper because the control the supply chain from mining to battery production. It has nothing to do with automation or cheaper labor, US plants are all automated. Chinese cars need to cost more for transport.
It is impossible to build lower cost cars in the US with healthcare costs, and Trump has only made that worse. US is the only country that ties healthcare to employment.
Mostly. Price is a complex problem. Cost is a floor factor and automation affects that somehow. It is hard to know when automation lower prices as this depends on relative labor costs which have been going up in China.
This is what happens when you let the oil industry and their lobbyists have unfettered control of the narrative and legislation .You get a huge number of politicians falling into their pockets, and progress is stymied at every turn.
It’s actually kind of surprising America has made the limited progress on EVs that we have. But it’s nowhere near enough. And now we are paying the piper.
Tesla is American.
Lemmy has lots of opinions about vehicles with no actual knowledge. All US companies went in on EVs but you guys bought >3M pickup trucks instead, then you blame US industry for not making the cars you won’t buy.
This is some low effort trolling, do better.
Perverse fuel economy legislation and optimizing for high profit luxury vehicles meant consumers were choosing between a $20-30k ICE truck/suv or a $40k stripped trim EV.
In 2024 (when automakers were finally getting off their asses), only 10 BEV models were under $40k, most with pitiful range and only 2 just under $30k.
For comparison with ICE, there were 18 compact cars under $30k and 13 trucks under $40k. You could buy TWO Ford Mavericks for the price of an Ioniq 5 or a mid-trim Ford Mach-E.
American voters are doing their part to “help,” crying about “high” fuel prices (less than half of what they are here) when one of the big issues is that undertaxation of petrol has led to underinvestment in alternatives.
I mean, what do you want us to do? Index tax taxes or make them percentage based so they don’t go 33 years being eaten away by inflation? Create a system that actually pays for the roads it needs to exist instead of saddling the future with massive debt? Not make it legally difficult to impossible for any alternative forms of transport to exist or at least be usable by sane people? That all sounds impossible. /s
This has very little to do with oil industry lobbyists, and a whole lot to do with the whole world outsourcing their production and labor to a country with no worker protections.
That would explain Chinese dominance in vehicles in general, not EVs in particular.
Also, Chinese EV manufacturing facilities are so efficient precisely because they’re so incredibly highly automated, nothing to do with worker rights regardless of your opinion of China.
Do ya see a bunch of Chinese ICE vehicles running around?
They’re efficient because they have no concept of workers’ rights or IP. Not because they’re a country full of geniuses, and not because Big Oil is keeping them down, regardless of your opinion on China.
There are plenty of Chinese ICE vehicles, what on earth are you talking about ? MG got rolling here in the UK with ICE before releasing hybrids and EVs, Chery only have ICE and hybrids here etc etc Same in Australia with BYD and the rest.
You’re poorly informed.
Nah, you’re just a propagandized westerner who hasn’t done the most cursory research on the degree of automation in Chinese EV industry. Enjoy malding in your ignorance while your country’s industry crashes and burns
That China has terrible workers rights is a fact. That China also has a lot of automation is an unrelated fact that is also true.
Automation is unrelated to EV price?
Chinese EVs are cheaper because the control the supply chain from mining to battery production. It has nothing to do with automation or cheaper labor, US plants are all automated. Chinese cars need to cost more for transport.
It is impossible to build lower cost cars in the US with healthcare costs, and Trump has only made that worse. US is the only country that ties healthcare to employment.
Mostly. Price is a complex problem. Cost is a floor factor and automation affects that somehow. It is hard to know when automation lower prices as this depends on relative labor costs which have been going up in China.
Its unrelated to a conversation about the oil industry and lobbyists, obviously, yes.
The degree of automation is not relevant to a discussion about why they’re being kept out of other countries, or anything to do with Big Oil.