Insurance is cheaper for anyone that has any kind of medical issue.
Especially if it requires regular, long term, medication.
Skipping insurance and going self pay is a risky gamble is cheaper and only works as long as you are in relatively good health, and have no accidents/emergencies… which can end at any moment with someone deciding to text and drive ends up sending you flying like a field goal punt 40 yards down the road.
You forgot to add that the reason this is so is because, in cahoots with the insurance companies, hospitals and medical centers have jacked their prices up several times over in order to justify the existence of insurance.
I think your order is wrong: hospitals/doctors increase the costs for insurance pay customers because insurance exists.
Insurance pays out around 20% of the time. As in, the health care providers just get nothing from them most of the time. This is especially bad for Medicare/Medicaid. They then raise the prices to cover the situations that get nothing.
Source: I work for a nonprofit healthcare company and they share their yearly income statements.
It’s more of a relationship that is partially adversarial and partially cooperative.
Healthcare expensive
Insurance company pools resources of a bunch of clients to offer a gamble: pay a little now while you don’t need medical attention and they will pay if you do, in return for overall charging more than they pay out (when all clients are added up)
Healthcare providers see insurance companies have extra money, want some, so jack up prices
Insurance companies still want profit but also like the higher prices giving even more incentive to buy insurance so just jack up rates and deny coverage where they can to save money rather than use their bargaining power to reduce prices.
Unlike single payer public option where the incentive is to both save money and maximize healthcare available, so it seeks a balance between keeping costs low enough to be affordable (at a societal level) while paying enough that doctors want to provide the services.
Like so many other things in life, the answer is: It’s complicated. But also, a great many people DO skip health insurance.
Is there some stupid law that forces you to have insurance?
Not on a national/federal level, no.
Or is insurance somehow cheaper?
The answer here is very complicated and literally varies from person to person and also how you define “cheaper”. Overall, the answer is no.
On average, health insurance is not cheaper when you consider the total cost of the plans. These are for-profit companies, many/most are incredibly profitable with high margins of profit, which by definition means they make more on the the plans than they pay out. For that to happen, it means they cost more than they pay out (aka not cheaper).
On an individual basis, however, the equation can go either way. For some people and for some years, a person can come out ahead by having health insurance in the sense that the cost of the plan + the out-of-pocket cost of treatments is less than the out-of-pocket expenses they would have paid if they were not insured. Usually this is because the person has a lot of health issues, had a child that year, was diagnosed with cancer, and things like that.
Another aspect of the equation is that employer sponsored health insurance is nearly always less expensive than getting private insurance on your own for comparable plans. The health insurance companies give employers special group discounts on plans, as a starter. In addition, most employers subsidize some amount of the cost of the plans, so that the employees aren’t directly paying the full price. Obviously that gets nebulous pretty quickly so I’m not going to dig too much into the weeds here, but wanted to mention this. On a surface level, this means an employee might pay $200 for their insurance plan, employer might pay $500, and a comparable plan on the open market would be $1,000 (but the group discount means that the insurance company is only charging the employer $700 for it).
Additionally, health insurance is a hedge against catastrophic health issues like cancer, because they typically have a cap on how much a person is expected to pay each year for medical treatment (aka max out of pocket). So, even if it doesn’t strictly save you money, it gives you a reasonably accurate maximum bound on how much you’ll have to pay that year.
Another consideration for health insurance is that it acts as a “get in the door” card for some amount of health care. Outside of emergency care, most everything else has an upfront cost, and if you don’t have that money, you don’t get treatment. With insurance, that upfront cost is typically a fixed copay (like $50 to see a doctor). Without insurance, most/many doctors will require you to pay in full upfront before you get seen (so like $350). In the USA, that difference in cost between a copay and full price is the difference between getting treatment or not even if the overall picture is that insurance is more expensive.
My medication will cost $1000 a month without it. When I was sick with something else I would have paid $700 a pill I had to take every day for a month.
I skip insurance. Mostly cuz i skip the full time job as well. Dont get me wrong, i work. Mostly part time and sometimes i do odd jobs for cash too. Why? I dont like being roped into a 9 to 5 too long.
So i try for a mix of working, having fun and making money. Plus, it saves on taxes. Haha 🤣🤣🤣
I didnt even get insurance when Obama was in office. I was 18-20 but somehow i pulled it off!!!
So, how come people don’t just skip insurance? Is there some stupid law that forces you to have insurance? Or is insurance somehow cheaper?
A lot of people do and they are basically hoping they don’t get anything to catastrophic.
Insurance is cheaper for anyone that has any kind of medical issue.
Especially if it requires regular, long term, medication.
Skipping insurance and going self pay is a risky gamble is cheaper and only works as long as you are in relatively good health, and have no accidents/emergencies… which can end at any moment with someone deciding to text and drive ends up sending you flying like a field goal punt 40 yards down the road.
You forgot to add that the reason this is so is because, in cahoots with the insurance companies, hospitals and medical centers have jacked their prices up several times over in order to justify the existence of insurance.
I think your order is wrong: hospitals/doctors increase the costs for insurance pay customers because insurance exists.
Insurance pays out around 20% of the time. As in, the health care providers just get nothing from them most of the time. This is especially bad for Medicare/Medicaid. They then raise the prices to cover the situations that get nothing.
Source: I work for a nonprofit healthcare company and they share their yearly income statements.
Yes, I thought that was what I said.
They way I read your post was that it was more of a collaborative effort to raise prices.
It’s more of a relationship that is partially adversarial and partially cooperative.
Unlike single payer public option where the incentive is to both save money and maximize healthcare available, so it seeks a balance between keeping costs low enough to be affordable (at a societal level) while paying enough that doctors want to provide the services.
Basically it goes
Hospital: Holy fuck insurance pays more than peons can, increase the prices! 2 chewable asprins are now 200 dollars.
Insurance: Hey, fuck you, you cunt. We’re not paying 200 dollars for 10 cents of chewable asprins. We’ll pay 50.
Hospital: Hey, fuck you, you got the money, give us 125.
Insurance: Go fuck your whore mother, You’re getting 100 and not a dollar more
Hospital: Fine, Deal.
Self Pay Patient: How am I supposed to afford to pay for the asprin when this is how it goes…
I know someone who refuses to buy insurance and insists on negotiating with the hospital. He is an attorney so maybe they are afraid he will sue them.
I mean, even if he’s just a marginally successful attorney, he probably has the money for it.
Honestly, i like the strategy. Good for him 🤤
Maybe i should go to law school!
Like so many other things in life, the answer is: It’s complicated. But also, a great many people DO skip health insurance.
Not on a national/federal level, no.
The answer here is very complicated and literally varies from person to person and also how you define “cheaper”. Overall, the answer is no.
On average, health insurance is not cheaper when you consider the total cost of the plans. These are for-profit companies, many/most are incredibly profitable with high margins of profit, which by definition means they make more on the the plans than they pay out. For that to happen, it means they cost more than they pay out (aka not cheaper).
On an individual basis, however, the equation can go either way. For some people and for some years, a person can come out ahead by having health insurance in the sense that the cost of the plan + the out-of-pocket cost of treatments is less than the out-of-pocket expenses they would have paid if they were not insured. Usually this is because the person has a lot of health issues, had a child that year, was diagnosed with cancer, and things like that.
Another aspect of the equation is that employer sponsored health insurance is nearly always less expensive than getting private insurance on your own for comparable plans. The health insurance companies give employers special group discounts on plans, as a starter. In addition, most employers subsidize some amount of the cost of the plans, so that the employees aren’t directly paying the full price. Obviously that gets nebulous pretty quickly so I’m not going to dig too much into the weeds here, but wanted to mention this. On a surface level, this means an employee might pay $200 for their insurance plan, employer might pay $500, and a comparable plan on the open market would be $1,000 (but the group discount means that the insurance company is only charging the employer $700 for it).
Additionally, health insurance is a hedge against catastrophic health issues like cancer, because they typically have a cap on how much a person is expected to pay each year for medical treatment (aka max out of pocket). So, even if it doesn’t strictly save you money, it gives you a reasonably accurate maximum bound on how much you’ll have to pay that year.
Another consideration for health insurance is that it acts as a “get in the door” card for some amount of health care. Outside of emergency care, most everything else has an upfront cost, and if you don’t have that money, you don’t get treatment. With insurance, that upfront cost is typically a fixed copay (like $50 to see a doctor). Without insurance, most/many doctors will require you to pay in full upfront before you get seen (so like $350). In the USA, that difference in cost between a copay and full price is the difference between getting treatment or not even if the overall picture is that insurance is more expensive.
Yes actually.
Only when Obama was in office. But for some people paying the fine was cheaper.
Actually, the fine was cheaper. It was only like $90 for the whole effing year! Monthly premiums for insurance are way more than $90
So yeah, O-bummer was kinda stupid in that descision
It’s also mandated that your employer provide insurance coverage for you, or they get fined. And those fines are pretty serious.
My medication will cost $1000 a month without it. When I was sick with something else I would have paid $700 a pill I had to take every day for a month.
I skip insurance. Mostly cuz i skip the full time job as well. Dont get me wrong, i work. Mostly part time and sometimes i do odd jobs for cash too. Why? I dont like being roped into a 9 to 5 too long.
So i try for a mix of working, having fun and making money. Plus, it saves on taxes. Haha 🤣🤣🤣
I didnt even get insurance when Obama was in office. I was 18-20 but somehow i pulled it off!!!
Very smart. Why be stuck skipping your life so you can make someone else richer?