All devices now have chips that do a handshake with the charger, exchanging information about supported standards and charging using the best common option. So I charge my prohe with a 90W laptop charger, even when it is unable to use the whole wattage
What’s the solution here though? I am 100% unwilling to go back to non-compatible and separate chargers for electronics where not completely necessary. It’s awesome taking only my laptop charger with me and being able to charge all devices optimally with it.
The issue is, that’s not even enough! For example, the Dell 120 W laptop charger only supports 5V/1A or 20V/6A output, so phones will mostly charge at 5W because they dont support 20V input.
Then there’s all the different charging protocols… Oh boy.
The problem is that the average consumer will have no idea what those numbers mean. If it was as simple as “this charger can output up to X watt”, labeling would probably be fine, but as soon as it gets more complicated than that, you’re beyond what most of the population is able and/or willing to deal with
Yep! In this case, you may go “Oh, 120W is more than my phone’s 20W charging speed, so it’ll be fine,” only to find out that because it’s only available at a voltage higher than the phone supports it’ll be a very slow charger.
I don’t think most consumers want or care to look at what charging profiles their phones and chargers support.
Well, I’m all for universally easy things and a consumer not being stressed, but if we really got to the “I don’t get basic numbers” territory, then go learn some school physics, and maybe that Volts is the pressure in the pipe, Amps is how fast the water flows through it, and Watts is just pressure times flow rate - it’s that simple. Go and fucking learn what is what, there’s enough information in my comment alone.
Maybe that’s a hot take, but I am of the opinion that you shouldn’t need to understand physics for the most basic usage of the device that manages your entire life
for most part, rather than all that mess, maybe just stamp the cable/port with max wattage and max speed. So rather than worry about what standard am I using, I just know what I have and what goes where.
Right now, it looks like it’s mostly usb-c everything (with “the more watts, the better”, and the apple stuff being generally compliant becaus of the legislation pressure, but really not because their stuff is (intentionally) not completely working the same way. There’s also a minority of “just shitty chargers and cables”, but I’m speaking of brand-name space
It’s the USB Implementers Forum’s job to standardize these things, and they’ve just been doing a bad job. The naming scheme is a mess and the requirements are so loose, manufacturers just kinda hit whatever specs they want.
They need to set specific comprehensive list of technical requirements for each class of USB-C cable and port, reduce the number of classes (no more than 3-5), and make the naming scheme and logo design of those classes very clear and obvious to the less informed.
There’s supposed to be specfic icons the manufacturers can print next to the port. It’s not perfect, but at least it’s easy to know at a glance eg. whether it can double as a displayport or not and whether it can double as an input charging port or not.
It also doesn’t actually matter at all. You just plug it in and it works. How well it works really doesn’t matter in 99% of cases.
And as time goes on the absolute minimum you will come across only goes up and never doesn’t work.
So unless your casing the absolute newest feature set where you absolute need say thunderbolt 4 not 3 or 2. Then it doesn’t matter.
For wattage you can just read the brick. Its required by law to have that information right on it. For the cable if it doesn’t work go but a new cable and retire your old one. Iv had two replace my main USB c to c cable once ever because it wouldn’t handle the wattage i needed it to.
Its just a seriously non fucking problem for 99.99% of people.
The minimum feature and watt spec of every cheap piece of shit is well past the point normal people care.
Half the cables I have will charge a phone, but will not pass data. There’s no visual clue, so when I want to use a usb mic for example, I have to try cables until I find one that works.
All mine are either labelled such that they are differentiated clearly from other on-device ports, identical to all others, or they are the only port on the device. While i could complain about the specific symbols and lack of standardization there, I have one singular device i care about fast charging with. So it’s rather moot once i identify the high power port.
More USBC plz. Looking forward to the 230V standard.
I mean, it’s not 20 of them like the picture suggests - it’s like 2 or 3 depending on what yoou have. And I have laptop chargers everywhere, and a good powerbank, so I’m covered. And I also have a GaN universal hub with several plugs, so I can plug in US or EU and have a lot of watts coming onnthe other side. So I feel like the chargers war is over and now we can just use stuff.
And why exactly would that matter? Your devices automatically negotiate to the most effective alternative. If you want to streamline it, you read the manual? FWIW I’ve never had a device with completely unlabeled ports…
No 5 kOhm resistors on the CC pins? Not even 5V charging works for C->C. I love USB C, absolutely do not get me wrong, but holy fuck this willy nilly bullshit destroys it. Just make USB3, then 4 years later etc. with very specific things it must be able to do and mark all devices and be done with it.
“a bit slower” can mean multiple hours even for a regular smartphone, or a full day for something like a powerbank. That can easily catch you out if you expect the device to fast-charge as usual. It works, but it’s far from ideal
I’m having some cheap devices with USB C plugs to charge, that stubbornly refuse to get charged with “better” cables. Only the real cheap ones work.
Probably because some pins must not be used or something, but it really sucks needing a separate cable around just for those devices
I get, that not every cable or device can support fast charging, but the other way round should at least work
Except that C to C only works when the receiving device has at least the required 5 kOhm resistors on the CC pins. Otherwise nada. But guess what? Lots of shit does not, so only charges from USB A.
Chargers are also required by law to label their wattage and amps on the device.
Your cable might not do the highest wattage but your laptop will tell you if the cable isn’t enough when you plug it in… And why don’t you have the cable that came with it then? Its just a non problem.
On the other hand, I have a USB-C charged laptop, but it only accepts one specific spec of 45w, and one specific spec for 60w. This means that 90% of usb-c chargers don’t work for it, including chargers that support 45w or 60w charging. This means that even if you buy a charger with the right wattage, its effectively random whether it will work or not.
You just note down the company who delivered the idiotic product: next time your options for purchase are narrower, but it narrow the chance to buy products badly designed.
Just because some companies sells USB butplugs it doesn’t mean USB standard is necessarily a pain in the ass overall.
I have a fucking thinkpad that does not follow the USB PD spec!
The thing has only type-c ports, the thing is relatively recent (2023), the thing accepts 140W via type-c, I never bothered to check the actual specs and assumed PD 3.1
Turned out that no, this is not PD, this works only via proprietary power brick that outputs 20v@6.75A, that I didn’t get as I already have a bajilion of PD 3.0/3.1 power supplies at home.
I have different work Thinkpads from 2019, so probably the first one was 2018 or 2017 generation. And they accepted whatever laptop usb charger (ok, most of them were also Lenovos, but some generic stuff our IT was ordering from Amazon as well)
My current T14 works with my AliExpress 120w powerbank.
Probably good to rely on brands who don’t mess with standards
While that is mostly true, I do have several USBC devices that refuse to charge with a name brand 65 watt charger I have, but they just love the cheap dollar store 5 watt versions.
Oh, my powerbank charges my laptop through the high-power usb specifically marked “PD”, and that usb doesn’t charge my bike lights - the other “usual” 15w ones do. And many usb hubs also have something like this written on them.
What I’m saying is that I’m only against the picture showing 20 Usb-c ports telling that they are all different. I would divide slots and cables in 3 groups:
“oh, this one doesn’t show fast charging”,
“yay, this one supports fast charging”,
and “this thing has “100000W” written on it and it charges my laptop”.
And you usually can easily distinguish them. Like, a thin cable probably won’t do the fast charging thing
All devices now have chips that do a handshake with the charger, exchanging information about supported standards and charging using the best common option. So I charge my prohe with a 90W laptop charger, even when it is unable to use the whole wattage
The point is that it is unclear which USB C can do what.
What’s the solution here though? I am 100% unwilling to go back to non-compatible and separate chargers for electronics where not completely necessary. It’s awesome taking only my laptop charger with me and being able to charge all devices optimally with it.
I think the complaint is more about the ports on computers, and the answer is for manufacturers to label the ports and for users to read them.
That last part is admittedly hard for a lot of people (myself includes at times).
The issue is, that’s not even enough! For example, the Dell 120 W laptop charger only supports 5V/1A or 20V/6A output, so phones will mostly charge at 5W because they dont support 20V input. Then there’s all the different charging protocols… Oh boy.
I’m not sure how your example is “not even enough”? If the charger is labeled as only having a 5v/1A and a 20V/6A profile, then where is the problem?
The problem is that the average consumer will have no idea what those numbers mean. If it was as simple as “this charger can output up to X watt”, labeling would probably be fine, but as soon as it gets more complicated than that, you’re beyond what most of the population is able and/or willing to deal with
Yep! In this case, you may go “Oh, 120W is more than my phone’s 20W charging speed, so it’ll be fine,” only to find out that because it’s only available at a voltage higher than the phone supports it’ll be a very slow charger. I don’t think most consumers want or care to look at what charging profiles their phones and chargers support.
Well, I’m all for universally easy things and a consumer not being stressed, but if we really got to the “I don’t get basic numbers” territory, then go learn some school physics, and maybe that Volts is the pressure in the pipe, Amps is how fast the water flows through it, and Watts is just pressure times flow rate - it’s that simple. Go and fucking learn what is what, there’s enough information in my comment alone.
Maybe that’s a hot take, but I am of the opinion that you shouldn’t need to understand physics for the most basic usage of the device that manages your entire life
there are too many standards.
for most part, rather than all that mess, maybe just stamp the cable/port with max wattage and max speed. So rather than worry about what standard am I using, I just know what I have and what goes where.
https://xkcd.com/927/
Right now, it looks like it’s mostly usb-c everything (with “the more watts, the better”, and the apple stuff being generally compliant becaus of the legislation pressure, but really not because their stuff is (intentionally) not completely working the same way. There’s also a minority of “just shitty chargers and cables”, but I’m speaking of brand-name space
At least thunderbolt you usually get an icon plus number. Though most devices don’t label the ports.
All the other USB standards are confusing as shit.
It’s the USB Implementers Forum’s job to standardize these things, and they’ve just been doing a bad job. The naming scheme is a mess and the requirements are so loose, manufacturers just kinda hit whatever specs they want.
They need to set specific comprehensive list of technical requirements for each class of USB-C cable and port, reduce the number of classes (no more than 3-5), and make the naming scheme and logo design of those classes very clear and obvious to the less informed.
There’s supposed to be specfic icons the manufacturers can print next to the port. It’s not perfect, but at least it’s easy to know at a glance eg. whether it can double as a displayport or not and whether it can double as an input charging port or not.
It also doesn’t actually matter at all. You just plug it in and it works. How well it works really doesn’t matter in 99% of cases.
And as time goes on the absolute minimum you will come across only goes up and never doesn’t work.
So unless your casing the absolute newest feature set where you absolute need say thunderbolt 4 not 3 or 2. Then it doesn’t matter.
For wattage you can just read the brick. Its required by law to have that information right on it. For the cable if it doesn’t work go but a new cable and retire your old one. Iv had two replace my main USB c to c cable once ever because it wouldn’t handle the wattage i needed it to.
Its just a seriously non fucking problem for 99.99% of people.
The minimum feature and watt spec of every cheap piece of shit is well past the point normal people care.
Half the cables I have will charge a phone, but will not pass data. There’s no visual clue, so when I want to use a usb mic for example, I have to try cables until I find one that works.
Wattage is not the issue.
All mine are either labelled such that they are differentiated clearly from other on-device ports, identical to all others, or they are the only port on the device. While i could complain about the specific symbols and lack of standardization there, I have one singular device i care about fast charging with. So it’s rather moot once i identify the high power port.
More USBC plz. Looking forward to the 230V standard.
I mean, it’s not 20 of them like the picture suggests - it’s like 2 or 3 depending on what yoou have. And I have laptop chargers everywhere, and a good powerbank, so I’m covered. And I also have a GaN universal hub with several plugs, so I can plug in US or EU and have a lot of watts coming onnthe other side. So I feel like the chargers war is over and now we can just use stuff.
And why exactly would that matter? Your devices automatically negotiate to the most effective alternative. If you want to streamline it, you read the manual? FWIW I’ve never had a device with completely unlabeled ports…
Cable only charging, only this, only that speed.
Device A only this, only that.
Device B see A.
No 5 kOhm resistors on the CC pins? Not even 5V charging works for C->C. I love USB C, absolutely do not get me wrong, but holy fuck this willy nilly bullshit destroys it. Just make USB3, then 4 years later etc. with very specific things it must be able to do and mark all devices and be done with it.
Sure but to be fair the vast majority of devices charges fine with the baseline 5V/1A, even if a bit slower.
Exception is larger devices like laptops but I can’t say it’s a huge problem as their larger chargers are distinct enough
“a bit slower” can mean multiple hours even for a regular smartphone, or a full day for something like a powerbank. That can easily catch you out if you expect the device to fast-charge as usual. It works, but it’s far from ideal
I’m having some cheap devices with USB C plugs to charge, that stubbornly refuse to get charged with “better” cables. Only the real cheap ones work.
Probably because some pins must not be used or something, but it really sucks needing a separate cable around just for those devices
I get, that not every cable or device can support fast charging, but the other way round should at least work
Except that C to C only works when the receiving device has at least the required 5 kOhm resistors on the CC pins. Otherwise nada. But guess what? Lots of shit does not, so only charges from USB A.
Chargers are also required by law to label their wattage and amps on the device.
Your cable might not do the highest wattage but your laptop will tell you if the cable isn’t enough when you plug it in… And why don’t you have the cable that came with it then? Its just a non problem.
On the other hand, I have a USB-C charged laptop, but it only accepts one specific spec of 45w, and one specific spec for 60w. This means that 90% of usb-c chargers don’t work for it, including chargers that support 45w or 60w charging. This means that even if you buy a charger with the right wattage, its effectively random whether it will work or not.
You just note down the company who delivered the idiotic product: next time your options for purchase are narrower, but it narrow the chance to buy products badly designed.
Just because some companies sells USB butplugs it doesn’t mean USB standard is necessarily a pain in the ass overall.
I have a fucking thinkpad that does not follow the USB PD spec!
The thing has only type-c ports, the thing is relatively recent (2023), the thing accepts 140W via type-c, I never bothered to check the actual specs and assumed PD 3.1
Turned out that no, this is not PD, this works only via proprietary power brick that outputs 20v@6.75A, that I didn’t get as I already have a bajilion of PD 3.0/3.1 power supplies at home.
back of the device
No, but it does mean that the USB standard allows for being a pain in the ass, compatibility-wise, which kind-of defeats the point.
I have different work Thinkpads from 2019, so probably the first one was 2018 or 2017 generation. And they accepted whatever laptop usb charger (ok, most of them were also Lenovos, but some generic stuff our IT was ordering from Amazon as well)
My current T14 works with my AliExpress 120w powerbank.
Probably good to rely on brands who don’t mess with standards
Why did you not use this opportunity to name and shame, to help others avoid such evil manufacturers?
While that is mostly true, I do have several USBC devices that refuse to charge with a name brand 65 watt charger I have, but they just love the cheap dollar store 5 watt versions.
I have a few devices that have usb-c but only charge off an A-to-C cable. Presumably no charging circuit to negotiate with usb-C chargers.
All it would have taken are 2 resistors…
Oh, my powerbank charges my laptop through the high-power usb specifically marked “PD”, and that usb doesn’t charge my bike lights - the other “usual” 15w ones do. And many usb hubs also have something like this written on them.
What I’m saying is that I’m only against the picture showing 20 Usb-c ports telling that they are all different. I would divide slots and cables in 3 groups:
And you usually can easily distinguish them. Like, a thin cable probably won’t do the fast charging thing