Right. But in much of the world the average wage would be sufficient to cover a home. Not that one should if they can co-live with family or friends, but seeing as op desires their own home the most (the thread), I would assume they’d choose not to. Which comes back to usually being able to “just get one” if one really wants that. Unless they have no income. But almost always that’s a problem that can be solved with enough resolve, disabilities and such notwithstanding.
All to say, if one’s own home is the dearest wish one has, that’s, in vast majority of cases, entirely doable. Which is to say, the dream will come true in this case, with some work and resolve. Unlike some of the other dreams here. Which is an amazing thing, and a hopeful one for the op, which I was trying to highlight to them
Getting an average wage is something 50% of people are unable to do.
Fortunately I live in the UK where minimum wage is pretty decent. But even with that, many people struggle to get full employment. At least if you do have full employment you shouldn’t have any financial issues here unless you just spend it all but at that point it’s more of a skill issue.
Average wages are far above what most people earn. Median income is lower and closer to realistic … then one can cut it down further by median income for people aged 25-35. Then look at that bracket alongside cost of living in the geographical location of those same wages - if that’s in the first world, odds are the cost of living is above the available wages.
If it’s in a developing country, then food and shelter security itself may be in doubt.
And of course, that doesn’t take unemployment into account.
To be honest, your reply makes you sound like you’ve never faced any sort of financial hardship in your life … which would put you in the minority of people on the planet.
Oh I’ve been homeless, couch-surfed and unemployed with clinical depression that recurs even today, driving those periods of my life.
But I’ve found my footing each time with a bit of resolve and bad enough situation to eventually accrue and warrant the resolve. And luckily, friends and empathetic strangers.
But I live in the 1st world and have also had a family to help and overall safe and helpful society to fall back on, even when I’ve fucking lost the map, not even able to kill myself due to my cowardice, no place to stay, ashamed to ask for help for months at end.
So I know a little, the hard way, about not having a home. Not even the one the op has with their parents.
But I also know, the hard way here too, that it’s only about surviving long enough to accumulate enough resolve to figure things out. If you outlast the call of the void and the shame and despair and the uncertainty of even things like where to sleep this night, can I manage something to eat, etc. then it ultimately works out, with enough resolve.
And when it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter anymore. Losing the resolve is either answering the void or giving up and accepting the bleak situation, until you one day either retry with resolve, or join eternity.
Stop undervaluing what was the single most important part of your experience. Not everyone has friends, family, or access to people who don’t want to fuck them or fuck them over.
Wasn’t my intent to undervalue it. Just noting that the strangers for example, could’ve happened to anyone, those times it just happened to be me. I am privileged in that alone, but the privilege isn’t or wasn’t inherent or special to me, just pure chance.
Which is to say, it could and can happen to anyone. Which is the point I wanted to raise, I think. Life and world is chaotic. Nobody’s excluded or fully shielded from good luck. Nor bad shit. Some might have more things going for them one way or the other, but nothing in this chaos entirely discounts anyone, ever.
But these were weird ramblings from me, I tried (and failed) to make a point and be coherent. I’m not an authority to listen to here, not really sure where the confidence came to present myself as such in these comments.
OP has also been lucky, because they’re able to live with their parents, but that doesn’t mean they have the resources to be able to support a separate household.
I have also been lucky, in that I have always been able to make money even when I had nothing. But I’ve known other people who were not in that position and struggled as a result.
In that sense, everyone is and can be lucky. It’s not like you know or feel, at the time, that things would ever improve. Things feel final. It never feels like you’ll get another chance at life.
Yet, most do. I was lucky in that it never took years. But even those seemingly stuck, tens of years on the street, can always get a chance, be it luck or resolve. Or both. I suppose luck means nothing if you don’t have the resolve to seize the chance and do something with it.
All to say, with some resolve, and yes, luck, having your own roof over your head is not a far shot, it’s the genuine common case for most everyone. Maybe it takes time and work, and luck, and will, but there’s no place in world where it wasn’t generally the average person’s situation, as in, more likely than not.
That’s fair, if to you resolve means being willing to live in your car or an abandoned house, and also that you don’t necessarily acquire money through legal means.
I get where you are coming from, and fair enough, but I strongly feel it’s more sensible not to mirror this through the worst possible scenario, but the average one.
Either way you make more sense here than I, through a more empathetic and understanding lense, and ultimately I’m not sure what it is exactly I intended to convey with all this back and forth.
Maybe just that things are not always as hopeless as they seem, and if a thing feels out of reach, at the time, unachievable, doesn’t always make it so, or mean it’ll always be so.
But the “all you need is some elbow grease” pathos I’m really not sure where that came from, I didn’t intend it to sound that way, but reading back, that’s what my responses sound like.
Oh well. As long as we dare to dream and hope, we are still alive. And as long as we are alive, it’s never too late for anything, however unlikely or distant they may seem.
Hey, no worries, we both approached this from opposite ends. And it may be that because of my history I’ve mostly interacted with people who had more humble starts in life or didn’t get a normal amount of opportunities.
Either way, thank you for arguing in good faith :-)
Median is a type of average, tbh both mean and median wages are plenty in most developed countries - if you actually get that much. Which half or more than half of people don’t get, depending on which one you are using.
Not sure I agree, given how disproportionate housing costs are in many first world countries.
As an example, my brother makes well above the median income in the UK, but lives in an old camper van during weekdays because he can’t afford rent in the area where he works.
I also live in the UK and bought a house on minimum wage. Cheaper part of the south east but still costs a bit more than where I grew up in the south west.
How on earth did you get a deposit while on minimum wage?
When minimum wage came in in the UK my legit income more than doubled, but was still only enough to cover food, a decent 125 scooter, and about half my rent. To make up the rent I depended on other forms of income.
Right. But in much of the world the average wage would be sufficient to cover a home. Not that one should if they can co-live with family or friends, but seeing as op desires their own home the most (the thread), I would assume they’d choose not to. Which comes back to usually being able to “just get one” if one really wants that. Unless they have no income. But almost always that’s a problem that can be solved with enough resolve, disabilities and such notwithstanding.
All to say, if one’s own home is the dearest wish one has, that’s, in vast majority of cases, entirely doable. Which is to say, the dream will come true in this case, with some work and resolve. Unlike some of the other dreams here. Which is an amazing thing, and a hopeful one for the op, which I was trying to highlight to them
Getting an average wage is something 50% of people are unable to do.
Fortunately I live in the UK where minimum wage is pretty decent. But even with that, many people struggle to get full employment. At least if you do have full employment you shouldn’t have any financial issues here unless you just spend it all but at that point it’s more of a skill issue.
Average wages are far above what most people earn. Median income is lower and closer to realistic … then one can cut it down further by median income for people aged 25-35. Then look at that bracket alongside cost of living in the geographical location of those same wages - if that’s in the first world, odds are the cost of living is above the available wages.
If it’s in a developing country, then food and shelter security itself may be in doubt.
And of course, that doesn’t take unemployment into account.
To be honest, your reply makes you sound like you’ve never faced any sort of financial hardship in your life … which would put you in the minority of people on the planet.
Oh I’ve been homeless, couch-surfed and unemployed with clinical depression that recurs even today, driving those periods of my life.
But I’ve found my footing each time with a bit of resolve and bad enough situation to eventually accrue and warrant the resolve. And luckily, friends and empathetic strangers.
But I live in the 1st world and have also had a family to help and overall safe and helpful society to fall back on, even when I’ve fucking lost the map, not even able to kill myself due to my cowardice, no place to stay, ashamed to ask for help for months at end.
So I know a little, the hard way, about not having a home. Not even the one the op has with their parents.
But I also know, the hard way here too, that it’s only about surviving long enough to accumulate enough resolve to figure things out. If you outlast the call of the void and the shame and despair and the uncertainty of even things like where to sleep this night, can I manage something to eat, etc. then it ultimately works out, with enough resolve.
And when it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter anymore. Losing the resolve is either answering the void or giving up and accepting the bleak situation, until you one day either retry with resolve, or join eternity.
My dude.
Stop undervaluing what was the single most important part of your experience. Not everyone has friends, family, or access to people who don’t want to fuck them or fuck them over.
Wasn’t my intent to undervalue it. Just noting that the strangers for example, could’ve happened to anyone, those times it just happened to be me. I am privileged in that alone, but the privilege isn’t or wasn’t inherent or special to me, just pure chance.
Which is to say, it could and can happen to anyone. Which is the point I wanted to raise, I think. Life and world is chaotic. Nobody’s excluded or fully shielded from good luck. Nor bad shit. Some might have more things going for them one way or the other, but nothing in this chaos entirely discounts anyone, ever.
But these were weird ramblings from me, I tried (and failed) to make a point and be coherent. I’m not an authority to listen to here, not really sure where the confidence came to present myself as such in these comments.
All fair and valid. Your heart is in the right place and nothing else really matters. I hope your day is a good one.
In other words, you’ve been lucky.
OP has also been lucky, because they’re able to live with their parents, but that doesn’t mean they have the resources to be able to support a separate household.
I have also been lucky, in that I have always been able to make money even when I had nothing. But I’ve known other people who were not in that position and struggled as a result.
In that sense, everyone is and can be lucky. It’s not like you know or feel, at the time, that things would ever improve. Things feel final. It never feels like you’ll get another chance at life.
Yet, most do. I was lucky in that it never took years. But even those seemingly stuck, tens of years on the street, can always get a chance, be it luck or resolve. Or both. I suppose luck means nothing if you don’t have the resolve to seize the chance and do something with it.
All to say, with some resolve, and yes, luck, having your own roof over your head is not a far shot, it’s the genuine common case for most everyone. Maybe it takes time and work, and luck, and will, but there’s no place in world where it wasn’t generally the average person’s situation, as in, more likely than not.
That’s fair, if to you resolve means being willing to live in your car or an abandoned house, and also that you don’t necessarily acquire money through legal means.
Some people are not suited to doing that.
I get where you are coming from, and fair enough, but I strongly feel it’s more sensible not to mirror this through the worst possible scenario, but the average one.
Either way you make more sense here than I, through a more empathetic and understanding lense, and ultimately I’m not sure what it is exactly I intended to convey with all this back and forth.
Maybe just that things are not always as hopeless as they seem, and if a thing feels out of reach, at the time, unachievable, doesn’t always make it so, or mean it’ll always be so.
But the “all you need is some elbow grease” pathos I’m really not sure where that came from, I didn’t intend it to sound that way, but reading back, that’s what my responses sound like.
Oh well. As long as we dare to dream and hope, we are still alive. And as long as we are alive, it’s never too late for anything, however unlikely or distant they may seem.
Hey, no worries, we both approached this from opposite ends. And it may be that because of my history I’ve mostly interacted with people who had more humble starts in life or didn’t get a normal amount of opportunities.
Either way, thank you for arguing in good faith :-)
Median is a type of average, tbh both mean and median wages are plenty in most developed countries - if you actually get that much. Which half or more than half of people don’t get, depending on which one you are using.
Not sure I agree, given how disproportionate housing costs are in many first world countries.
As an example, my brother makes well above the median income in the UK, but lives in an old camper van during weekdays because he can’t afford rent in the area where he works.
I also live in the UK and bought a house on minimum wage. Cheaper part of the south east but still costs a bit more than where I grew up in the south west.
How on earth did you get a deposit while on minimum wage?
When minimum wage came in in the UK my legit income more than doubled, but was still only enough to cover food, a decent 125 scooter, and about half my rent. To make up the rent I depended on other forms of income.
And housing has gone up faster than minimum wage.
Renting a bedroom, after rent I didn’t really spend much else, food was only like £10-15 a week, was saving £5-10k a year.
So, it only took you 10 - 20 years of having no life to get a deposit together?
In my darkest days I was spending about £12 on food per week in total, but that was in the 90s
20 years of that would pretty much buy an entire house, not just a deposit. Not sure how it’s having no life either.