Spoken like somebody who hasn’t read a single line of research on the subject. Maybe educate yourself first before believing the “unfair advantage” hoax.
Again, read research on the subject. You do not have any idea what you’re talking about. You’re comparing pretransition people to transitioned people. It’s completely different.
What you’re spouting is the lowbrow kind of stuff a person at a bar would utter “I could run the country better than that imbecile” or “if scientists knew anything about anything, they’d have asked me how to fix the economy”.
I’m telling you again: read the damn research. You have no friggin’ idea what you’re talking about.
Men have a significant advantage over women when it comes to strenght and speed and in most (but not all) cases this applies to trans women as well.
Nothing about your comments indicates a willingness to change your mind. However, your statement above is the first concrete statement of the thread, so it seems like the onus would fall on you to support the claim, rather than /u/astro_city@fedio.io to refute it. If you make factual claims without evidence, nobody’s especially obligated to provide evidence to tell you that your made-up facts are wrong.
The results of female national elite athletes even indicate that the strength level attainable by extremely high training will rarely surpass the 50th percentile of untrained or not specifically trained men.
They called my claim that men have a significant advantage over women when it comes to strenght a made-up fact so I backed it up with evidence as requested.
This is what happens when you google something to support your made-up fact, rather than base your argument on the research.
Your claim was that this applies to most, but not all trans women. Your link provides literally zero support of that.
This bad faith, scientifically illiterate shit is why people are generally inclined to dismiss you as spewing ignorant bar talk and move on without trying to change your mind. Your stance wasn’t set based on current, relevant research and therefore isn’t likely to be changed by it.
If it was about that, then it was solved decades ago… when it was made that people who have transitioned can’t compete for 2 years.
You ever wonder why, despite how there should be hundreds of cases of the thing you are worried about actually happening, it still literally never has happened? That’s because it already can’t happen. It was solved. 100%.
The best data is from military recruits, and there are a couple of recent studies, one published in 2020 and one in 2023. They looked at cis men, cis women, trans man and trans women. How many steps you can do in a minute, how many push ups you can do in a minute, and how fast you can run 1.5 miles. And what they found in that study was that trans women remained faster for up to two years after the initiation of gender affirming hormone therapy. At four years, trans women continued to do more sit ups and push ups.
Are you sure you can google results of trans athletes setting female records? Cuz even trying to find a conservative website giving an example is not turning up anything. And for other, science-based sites, I just keep seeing over and over that it’s a myth and doesn’t actually happen.
The only records they mention are local records that were incidentally broken by those individuals, and in many cases are also listing unofficial events that specifically have no wait period.
They seem more concerned that “girls” are losing opportunities, seemingly forgetting that they are also talking about girls taking those places.
For someone who is claiming it’s not about “trans people participating” you didn’t pick a very good example of that not being your focus.
Please look into the actual science, you are backing your opinion up with feelings rather than facts.
Please look into the actual science, you are backing your opinion up with feelings rather than facts.
Like the NPR article I linked before that you simply ignored?
You claimed it has literally never happened and I linked you 600 examples and now you’re claiming not a single one of them is good enough for you? You sure it’s me whose going on by feelings here?
Please, link me one of those scientific studies that you approve of that shows no difference and I’ll look into it.
The NPR article is backing the official 2 year wait, that was implemented decades ago. Did you actually read through the site you linked me, it contains none of what you said it would and didn’t support your point at all. I am worse off for having read it, but I actually did.
What’s a biological woman and why do they matter more than ““non-biological”” women?
There are certainly female athletes with chromosomal abnormalities competing at any level. Women, who are completely unaware they’re in any way different because they have lived their entire life like any other woman. Women, who on average have a small boost in performance compared to women without chromosomal abnormalities.
Why should they be banned? Please elaborate and please also answer why this shouldn’t also apply to women of certain ethnicities with boosted competitive performance.
This isn’t about not wanting trans people in the sports and you know it. It’s about the unfair advantage they have over biological women.
Spoken like somebody who hasn’t read a single line of research on the subject. Maybe educate yourself first before believing the “unfair advantage” hoax.
Removed by mod
Again, read research on the subject. You do not have any idea what you’re talking about. You’re comparing pretransition people to transitioned people. It’s completely different.
What you’re spouting is the lowbrow kind of stuff a person at a bar would utter “I could run the country better than that imbecile” or “if scientists knew anything about anything, they’d have asked me how to fix the economy”.
I’m telling you again: read the damn research. You have no friggin’ idea what you’re talking about.
P.S look up Denning-Kruger
And not a single mind was changed that day.
“I won’t change my mind by reading scientific research because I know my bar talk is strong”
based. stay ignorant friendo
Nothing about your comments indicates a willingness to change your mind. However, your statement above is the first concrete statement of the thread, so it seems like the onus would fall on you to support the claim, rather than /u/astro_city@fedio.io to refute it. If you make factual claims without evidence, nobody’s especially obligated to provide evidence to tell you that your made-up facts are wrong.
Hand-grip strength of young men, women and highly trained female athletes
As the research doesn’t cover trans athletes, it’s of limited relevance. The onus has not yet been met.
They called my claim that men have a significant advantage over women when it comes to strenght a made-up fact so I backed it up with evidence as requested.
This is what happens when you google something to support your made-up fact, rather than base your argument on the research.
Your claim was that this applies to most, but not all trans women. Your link provides literally zero support of that.
This bad faith, scientifically illiterate shit is why people are generally inclined to dismiss you as spewing ignorant bar talk and move on without trying to change your mind. Your stance wasn’t set based on current, relevant research and therefore isn’t likely to be changed by it.
I made three claims and you called it all made-up facts.
You and people like you keep saying this and there is no fucking proof.
You just “gesture vaguely at the male-female strength difference”
Vibes based regulations will hurt people. Mostly not even the people you are trying to hurt.
People like me?
Poor phrasing I meant “other people saying the same things”
If it was about that, then it was solved decades ago… when it was made that people who have transitioned can’t compete for 2 years.
You ever wonder why, despite how there should be hundreds of cases of the thing you are worried about actually happening, it still literally never has happened? That’s because it already can’t happen. It was solved. 100%.
Source
You can also google endless examples of trans athletes breaking women’s records. Don’t lie that it has never happened.
Are you sure you can google results of trans athletes setting female records? Cuz even trying to find a conservative website giving an example is not turning up anything. And for other, science-based sites, I just keep seeing over and over that it’s a myth and doesn’t actually happen.
Here’s almost 600 examples.
Ignoring how incredibly offensive that site is.
It’s just a list of people that showed up.
The only records they mention are local records that were incidentally broken by those individuals, and in many cases are also listing unofficial events that specifically have no wait period.
They seem more concerned that “girls” are losing opportunities, seemingly forgetting that they are also talking about girls taking those places.
For someone who is claiming it’s not about “trans people participating” you didn’t pick a very good example of that not being your focus.
Please look into the actual science, you are backing your opinion up with feelings rather than facts.
Like the NPR article I linked before that you simply ignored?
You claimed it has literally never happened and I linked you 600 examples and now you’re claiming not a single one of them is good enough for you? You sure it’s me whose going on by feelings here?
Please, link me one of those scientific studies that you approve of that shows no difference and I’ll look into it.
The NPR article is backing the official 2 year wait, that was implemented decades ago. Did you actually read through the site you linked me, it contains none of what you said it would and didn’t support your point at all. I am worse off for having read it, but I actually did.
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/09/1168858094/arguments-that-trans-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-lacks-evidence-to-support
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lia-thomas-trans-swimmer-ron-desantis-b2091218.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/16l3c0h/are_there_any_examples_of_trans_women_actually/
This last one is a pdf, but I highly recommend it. It’s one of those “scientific studies I approve of that shows no difference”. It actually concludes that a 1 year wait would likely be enough for almost all sports. https://cces.ca/sites/default/files/content/docs/2024-01/transgender-women-athletes-and-elitesport-a-scientific-review-en.pdf
What’s a biological woman and why do they matter more than ““non-biological”” women?
There are certainly female athletes with chromosomal abnormalities competing at any level. Women, who are completely unaware they’re in any way different because they have lived their entire life like any other woman. Women, who on average have a small boost in performance compared to women without chromosomal abnormalities.
Why should they be banned? Please elaborate and please also answer why this shouldn’t also apply to women of certain ethnicities with boosted competitive performance.
I haven’t said they should be banned.
Bullshit. You don’t and have never cared about sports, this is bigotry plain and simple.