Out of every drug ive tried, adderal was the least fun and used to get work done, it even makes weed feel off and not fun, you just never really get high
Like everything else, it depends on the person. I can’t stand weed, but life without amphetamines is a hollow, pointless shadow life that would generally best be slept away.
First of all, nope. While people with ADHD are not all just magically immune to addiction, I’ve yet to meet any ADHD person who hasn’t just forgotten to take their meds. Which really isn’t something addicts tend to do.
In fact, for some people—like myself—if I skip a dose, i kind of just stop taking my meds and it takes effort to start again. Like the opposite of withdrawal where i have to force myself to start taking them again.
Now this non-addiction is probably also influenced by the fact that adderall dosages are low enough that addiction is less likely in general regardless of neurodivergence.
Furthermore, adderall is dextroamphetamine not methamphetamine. They may look similar but the methyl group on the latter is actually enough to change its behavior significantly. Meth’s uptake is much faster —and thus the effect is stronger—than dextroamphetamine.
There are other things which slow the uptake too, like the anion for adhd meds tends to be sulfate or saccharate (or a mix of both) while the anion for meth is HCl which makes much easier to dissolve and thus gives meth stronger/faster acting effects both of which increase addiction potential.
Lastly, ADHD meds like Adderall are built to slow the uptake even further. The dose is not entirely comprised of dextroamphetamine salts but also levoamphetamine which is several times weaker than dextroamphetamine in regards to reuptake and production of dopamine.
Edit: Removed the incorrect explanation of the left handed enantiomer.
Do you not comprehend the difference between taking an addictive medication in a safe way and not? That doesn’t make the medication itself change. It’s still an addictive medication.
I’m well aware of what adderall is. Methamphetamine also exists as an ADHD prescription medication.
You’re spouting nonsense. You don’t understand the effects of the left and right-handed isomer. Read more. It’s good for you.
Oh good catch on the enantiomers, thanks, I was thinking about a different drug.
As for the rest, you didn’t say “Its an addictive medication” you said
It’s addictive to everyone the same way
Which is categorically false for basically any addictive drug in the world. Your brain and biochemistry are going to have a significant effect on whether or not you get addicted to a substance regardless of whether you take it in a “safe way” or not.
A great example of this is alcohol. People use alcohol in a not-so-safe way all the time (see: any college fraternity ever). However the “I’m so addicted to alcohol I’ll drink hand sanitizer to satisfy that craving” really doesn’t show up very much despite binge drinking being common.
Taking addictive substances in a safe way reduces the chances of addiction in general but the actual likelihood of addiction is significantly impacted by the way the individual’s brain/body process it.
Addendum: Oh and the reason I went into detail about composition and addiction potential was because
k, try some meth kids
Made it sound like you might not have known there is a significant difference between meth and the more typical ADHD meds (AFAIK being prescribed actual meth quite is rare in general and even more unlikely for kids) so I thought I’d explain it
Labeling something as an Addiction requires compulsive use of a substance that is harmful to your health, your relationships, or your ability to function in society.
People with ADHD taking their medications as prescribed meet none of those defining characteristics.
A lot of medications come with an increased risk of substance abuse, that is totally different than claiming someone has an addiction.
Your original claim was similar to saying everyone who has ever drank a soda has an addiction to caffeine.
Having ADHD doesn’t change that
It does moderate it to a significant degree, especially when used as prescribed. The whole reason people with ADHD do better on stimulants is because they either lack dopamine or cannot transport it efficiently. Stimulants increase the amount of dopamine to normal level everyone else experiences. Meaning instead of getting a euphoric high, they just feel normal.
ADHD and amphetamine medication, and had a meth addiction in the past.
That’s definitely not the same as a doctor prescribing medication…
You were self medicating and probably overdoing it to the point where you were overloading dopamine pathways, making it just as likely to get addicted as anyone else. However, I bet it took you more meth than a person without ADHD to get the same high.
Don’t project your personal baggage onto everyone else.
Some people will be more susceptible than others, just like with any drug. Overall people with ADHD will not be as susceptible to people who do not have ADHD.
Claiming it is addictive to everyone in the same way is the same as saying everyone is just as susceptible to addiction as anyone else. If that were true everyone would be an addict.
The only other way to interpret this is that you are simply claiming the drug utilizes the same pharmacological pathways in everyone…which would be idiotically redundant.
While it’s true that stimulant medication still has addiction risk for people with ADHD, the addiction risk is dramatically lower than the NT population(for ADHD stimulant medication specifically, NOT addictive substances in general). Recommendations for people with SUD/ADHD suggest concurrent treatment of both, including stimulant medication due to the big reduction of relapse risk when medicated versus unmedicated. Obviously there’s caution on a case-by-case basis when using stimulant medication with concurrent treatment of SUD, but the sheer effectiveness of stimulant medication on the reduction of ADHD symptoms can be worth the risk.
No, it isn’t. And saying things like this can be harmful because you’re telling people that their medication poses less addiction risk to them than it does to others. It doesn’t. The medication is just as addictive whether a person does or does not have adhd.
Proof of what? That addictive chemicals are addictive even if a person has adhd? It’s point blank stupid to think otherwise. Feel free to search online and see things saying that when used as perscribed at low doses adhd medication doesn’t typically result in addiction. That isn’t saying the chemical itself is somehow different, or that people with adhd are somehow immune to addiction. People with adhd can abuse stimulants just as easily as anyone else can.
ADHD leaves you with a deficit of dopamine in some form or fashion, usually associated with structural inadequacy in parts of the brain. The dopaminergic affect is usually going to be one of the bigger factors in addictive behavior, and the dopaminergic affect works differently in people with ADHD versus a Neurotypical. For the NT, they will usually have a euphoric experience as a result of the dopaminergic release, whereas someone with ADHD is much less likely to experience this euphoric affect. Hence, the lower risk of addiction.
Sure, the risk isn’t zero. And boy are them college kids abusing the shit out of stimulant medication right now regardless of ADHD diagnosis. But the consensus is that prescribed stimulant medication is low risk versus the consensus of high addiction risk for the general population.
Congratulations, you have the ability to Google terms and grab links to things that you think support your point. I’m very proud of you.
Your first link posits that low dose stimulant medications may decrease odds of substance abuse disorder, however it flat out shows that untreated ADHD carries an increased risk of substance abuse including abuse of stimulants.
Your second link… derp. It’s saying that when a person takes a measured dose of a medication with high potential for abuse from childhood on they’re less likely to abuse that medication.
Neither of those say people with ADHD are magically immune to addiction or the addictive effects of stimulants. They’re not.
“But the consensus is that prescribed stimulant medication is low risk versus the consensus of high addiction risk for the general population.”
I never said otherwise. People try to portray those with ADHD as being immune to addiction, or having brains wired so very differently that stimulants effect them in entirely different ways when compared to people without adhd. That’s what I’m arguing against. It isn’t true, and it’s a dangerous, stupid attitude to have about any addictive substance.
Empathy for what? People spouting stupid bullshit? I’ve had a growing laundry list of mental health diagnosis stretching back almost half a century and would be shocked if more than a handful of people who use Lemmy have more personal first-hand experience with more medications.
Have you ever had anyone call what you were going through “stupid bullshit”?
Have you ever had anyone tell you to “just get over it” or something like that?
Ever had someone look down at you because of mental health? Ever been concerned by being judged by people who just don’t get it?
I’m asking you to have empathy with the people whom you are degrading, invalidating, and judging. It’s just as be unpleasant to be degraded, invalidated, or judged for them as it is for you.
Empathy for what? People spouting stupid bullshit?
I’m talking about what you said and what you should have empathy for. You asked what you should have empathy for. My response was me trying (perhaps unsuccessfully given your response) to shine a light on the what and why.
I said addictive meds are addictive regardless. You called me ableist. Now you said I was degrading, invalidating, and judging people.
Who? What people did I invalidate and degrade by saying that addictive medication is still addictive even if you do have adhd?
You jumped in calling me ableist and then followed that up by claiming I was the one “degrading, invalidating and judging” others. Do you not see the irony in that?
Why am I being abrasive? Because you jumped in fucking insulting me. Derp fucking derpity derp.
I said you where speaking like an ableist because you were. It’s not an insult. I would also call out someone a speaking like a racist. Not an insult either.
Derp fucking derpity derp.
I’ll let you be. I’m off to bed. I do hope things get better for you.
Right. Of course you wouldn’t be insulted if someone said you were speaking like a racist. Who would possibly be insulted by that? Oi. Just going to block you now.
Nah. It’s addictive to everyone in the same way.
'k, try some meth, kids. After all, it can only help you function more normally because of your special brain.
Out of every drug ive tried, adderal was the least fun and used to get work done, it even makes weed feel off and not fun, you just never really get high
Like everything else, it depends on the person. I can’t stand weed, but life without amphetamines is a hollow, pointless shadow life that would generally best be slept away.
First of all, nope. While people with ADHD are not all just magically immune to addiction, I’ve yet to meet any ADHD person who hasn’t just forgotten to take their meds. Which really isn’t something addicts tend to do.
In fact, for some people—like myself—if I skip a dose, i kind of just stop taking my meds and it takes effort to start again. Like the opposite of withdrawal where i have to force myself to start taking them again.
Now this non-addiction is probably also influenced by the fact that adderall dosages are low enough that addiction is less likely in general regardless of neurodivergence.
Furthermore, adderall is dextroamphetamine not methamphetamine. They may look similar but the methyl group on the latter is actually enough to change its behavior significantly. Meth’s uptake is much faster —and thus the effect is stronger—than dextroamphetamine.
There are other things which slow the uptake too, like the anion for adhd meds tends to be sulfate or saccharate (or a mix of both) while the anion for meth is HCl which makes much easier to dissolve and thus gives meth stronger/faster acting effects both of which increase addiction potential.
Lastly, ADHD meds like Adderall are built to slow the uptake even further. The dose is not entirely comprised of dextroamphetamine salts but also levoamphetamine which is several times weaker than dextroamphetamine in regards to reuptake and production of dopamine.
Edit: Removed the incorrect explanation of the left handed enantiomer.
Do you not comprehend the difference between taking an addictive medication in a safe way and not? That doesn’t make the medication itself change. It’s still an addictive medication.
I’m well aware of what adderall is. Methamphetamine also exists as an ADHD prescription medication.
You’re spouting nonsense. You don’t understand the effects of the left and right-handed isomer. Read more. It’s good for you.
Oh good catch on the enantiomers, thanks, I was thinking about a different drug.
As for the rest, you didn’t say “Its an addictive medication” you said
Which is categorically false for basically any addictive drug in the world. Your brain and biochemistry are going to have a significant effect on whether or not you get addicted to a substance regardless of whether you take it in a “safe way” or not.
A great example of this is alcohol. People use alcohol in a not-so-safe way all the time (see: any college fraternity ever). However the “I’m so addicted to alcohol I’ll drink hand sanitizer to satisfy that craving” really doesn’t show up very much despite binge drinking being common.
Taking addictive substances in a safe way reduces the chances of addiction in general but the actual likelihood of addiction is significantly impacted by the way the individual’s brain/body process it.
Addendum: Oh and the reason I went into detail about composition and addiction potential was because
Made it sound like you might not have known there is a significant difference between meth and the more typical ADHD meds (AFAIK being prescribed actual meth quite is rare in general and even more unlikely for kids) so I thought I’d explain it
Labeling something as an Addiction requires compulsive use of a substance that is harmful to your health, your relationships, or your ability to function in society.
People with ADHD taking their medications as prescribed meet none of those defining characteristics.
It’s still an addictive medication. Having ADHD doesn’t change that. I have ADHD and amphetamine medication, and had a meth addiction in the past.
A lot of medications come with an increased risk of substance abuse, that is totally different than claiming someone has an addiction.
Your original claim was similar to saying everyone who has ever drank a soda has an addiction to caffeine.
It does moderate it to a significant degree, especially when used as prescribed. The whole reason people with ADHD do better on stimulants is because they either lack dopamine or cannot transport it efficiently. Stimulants increase the amount of dopamine to normal level everyone else experiences. Meaning instead of getting a euphoric high, they just feel normal.
That’s definitely not the same as a doctor prescribing medication… You were self medicating and probably overdoing it to the point where you were overloading dopamine pathways, making it just as likely to get addicted as anyone else. However, I bet it took you more meth than a person without ADHD to get the same high.
Don’t project your personal baggage onto everyone else.
“Your original claim was similar to saying everyone who has ever drank a soda has an addiction to caffeine.”
Please point to where I said that.
Someone said: “It’s addictive to non-ADHD people.” I replied: “Nah. It’s addictive to everyone in the same way.”
Seems fairly simple.
It’s not though…
Some people will be more susceptible than others, just like with any drug. Overall people with ADHD will not be as susceptible to people who do not have ADHD.
Claiming it is addictive to everyone in the same way is the same as saying everyone is just as susceptible to addiction as anyone else. If that were true everyone would be an addict.
The only other way to interpret this is that you are simply claiming the drug utilizes the same pharmacological pathways in everyone…which would be idiotically redundant.
People with ADHD can become addicted to and abuse stimulants just like anyone else. It’s both dangerous and stupid to try to claim otherwise.
While it’s true that stimulant medication still has addiction risk for people with ADHD, the addiction risk is dramatically lower than the NT population(for ADHD stimulant medication specifically, NOT addictive substances in general). Recommendations for people with SUD/ADHD suggest concurrent treatment of both, including stimulant medication due to the big reduction of relapse risk when medicated versus unmedicated. Obviously there’s caution on a case-by-case basis when using stimulant medication with concurrent treatment of SUD, but the sheer effectiveness of stimulant medication on the reduction of ADHD symptoms can be worth the risk.
No, it isn’t. And saying things like this can be harmful because you’re telling people that their medication poses less addiction risk to them than it does to others. It doesn’t. The medication is just as addictive whether a person does or does not have adhd.
Proof or stfu already…
And not the anecdotal proof that has made up your mind.
Proof of what? That addictive chemicals are addictive even if a person has adhd? It’s point blank stupid to think otherwise. Feel free to search online and see things saying that when used as perscribed at low doses adhd medication doesn’t typically result in addiction. That isn’t saying the chemical itself is somehow different, or that people with adhd are somehow immune to addiction. People with adhd can abuse stimulants just as easily as anyone else can.
I don’t know what to tell you, what I’m saying is coming from actual relevant research on this very topic.
Stimulant medication does indeed reduce substance abuse risk: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9097465/
Stimulant medication use from childhood shows reduction in substance abuse risk: https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcpp.12164
ADHD leaves you with a deficit of dopamine in some form or fashion, usually associated with structural inadequacy in parts of the brain. The dopaminergic affect is usually going to be one of the bigger factors in addictive behavior, and the dopaminergic affect works differently in people with ADHD versus a Neurotypical. For the NT, they will usually have a euphoric experience as a result of the dopaminergic release, whereas someone with ADHD is much less likely to experience this euphoric affect. Hence, the lower risk of addiction.
Sure, the risk isn’t zero. And boy are them college kids abusing the shit out of stimulant medication right now regardless of ADHD diagnosis. But the consensus is that prescribed stimulant medication is low risk versus the consensus of high addiction risk for the general population.
Congratulations, you have the ability to Google terms and grab links to things that you think support your point. I’m very proud of you.
Your first link posits that low dose stimulant medications may decrease odds of substance abuse disorder, however it flat out shows that untreated ADHD carries an increased risk of substance abuse including abuse of stimulants.
Your second link… derp. It’s saying that when a person takes a measured dose of a medication with high potential for abuse from childhood on they’re less likely to abuse that medication.
Neither of those say people with ADHD are magically immune to addiction or the addictive effects of stimulants. They’re not.
“But the consensus is that prescribed stimulant medication is low risk versus the consensus of high addiction risk for the general population.”
I never said otherwise. People try to portray those with ADHD as being immune to addiction, or having brains wired so very differently that stimulants effect them in entirely different ways when compared to people without adhd. That’s what I’m arguing against. It isn’t true, and it’s a dangerous, stupid attitude to have about any addictive substance.
Spoken like a true ableist. Have some empathy.
Empathy for what? People spouting stupid bullshit? I’ve had a growing laundry list of mental health diagnosis stretching back almost half a century and would be shocked if more than a handful of people who use Lemmy have more personal first-hand experience with more medications.
Have you ever had anyone call what you were going through “stupid bullshit”?
Have you ever had anyone tell you to “just get over it” or something like that?
Ever had someone look down at you because of mental health? Ever been concerned by being judged by people who just don’t get it?
I’m asking you to have empathy with the people whom you are degrading, invalidating, and judging. It’s just as be unpleasant to be degraded, invalidated, or judged for them as it is for you.
What the fuck are you talking about? Who am I degrading, invalidating and judging? What caused this soapbox rant bullshit?
I’m talking about what you said and what you should have empathy for. You asked what you should have empathy for. My response was me trying (perhaps unsuccessfully given your response) to shine a light on the what and why.
Why are you being so abrasive here?
I said addictive meds are addictive regardless. You called me ableist. Now you said I was degrading, invalidating, and judging people.
Who? What people did I invalidate and degrade by saying that addictive medication is still addictive even if you do have adhd?
You jumped in calling me ableist and then followed that up by claiming I was the one “degrading, invalidating and judging” others. Do you not see the irony in that?
Why am I being abrasive? Because you jumped in fucking insulting me. Derp fucking derpity derp.
I said you where speaking like an ableist because you were. It’s not an insult. I would also call out someone a speaking like a racist. Not an insult either.
I’ll let you be. I’m off to bed. I do hope things get better for you.
Right. Of course you wouldn’t be insulted if someone said you were speaking like a racist. Who would possibly be insulted by that? Oi. Just going to block you now.