I was once talking with one of my classmates and he said that in the future, there will be universal basic income implemented by entire world. I was not convinced at that time and thought he is just being stupid but given the layoffs happening and massive amount of unemployment, I am thinking about this possibility. What do you say?
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Yes. As long as scarcity exists for a given commodity/service, markets are the best way to get an accurate assessment of concerned opportunity costs.
Needless to say, the presence of markets ≠ capitalism.
Hence, yes, I do believe that that UBI is the obvious way to go forward as humans move towards labor post scarcity.
UBI is a bandaid to keep capitalism propped up by neo-liberals. It’s contingent on the idea that society is dependent on people spending money, rather than getting essential services and enough free time to maintain mental stability.
It makes working voluntary but still incentivized, whereas without something like that, someone needs to force people to do the jobs that provide those essential services. People will volunteer doing fun things for their local community, but generally no further.
Even as we go more and more into a cyberpunk dystopia, I feel like it will inevitably be introduced in some way just because it will be necessary for money to flow, just so economy doesn’t collapse entirely.
if the world is to keep going at a technologically advanced level. yes. its basically that or collapse although it won’t necessarilly stop collapse.
The ruling class right now I going for a darker future. You can earn money or you can die of exposure.
When UBI starts being seriously considered on a large scale, you’ll likely see a massive influence campaign against it. Something along the lines of “If you give people free money, they’ll never get a job.” It will likely have racial undertones that range from subtle and implicit to wildly explicit, depending on the forum.
If low information working class people, those who would benefit the most from such a program, fall for that campaign, as they often do, you’ll see a backlash against it that could prevent it from becoming law.
I talked with my mother about this years ago. She confidently said, if you give people free money, nobody will do any work. I argued but she wouldn’t budge.
She is now comfortably retired, and makes hats with her time, and sells them. But that’s different.
You know, everyone who I personally know who passionately argues that if you give people free money they won’t do any work has been a stay at home mom.
Stay at home moms get “free” money from the spouse who goes to work and supports them.
I would also argue that stay at home moms work harder than a lot of us who have full time jobs. I get to leave work and mentally check out, they’re “at work” all the time.
Someone should point this out to the people who make this argument.
You just described the campaigns against welfare in general that have been going on for decades, which is also what I see happening with UBI. It will absolutely be sunk the same way any other social benefit is sunk through misinformation and outright lies.
Do you think it would help if you told them 40% of adults already don’t have jobs and that making that number higher isn’t as big of a leap as they think?
Don’t forget racism. “Look at those people, existing with that color skin. On your dime!?!?”
They called that out specifically
I don’t honestly think it will happen in a way that is genuinely good for people. It will happen in a way where the rich and powerful are in control and can use it as a method for maintaining control.
Came here to say this. Nobody in power gives up their power to the masses willingly, it must be taken. And the price is almost always paid in blood and suffering. And every victory is only temporary as they try to regain the power that was taken from them.
I mean you could just make Luigi a national holiday or event. Kill the rich once in a while to keep them in line.
Do I think that it is a possibility? Sure.
Do I think that it is likely in the near to medium term future? No.
It’s way too complex for me to boil down to a simple slogan, and ain’t nobody got time to read what I’d need to write to sufficiently explain and I ain’t got time to explain it. Closest I can come is that UBI is “equality” in a system would currently benefit more from “equity”, at least from a US-centric stand point. I am not anti-UBI by any means, just more inclined to say that a strong, need-based social safety net would be more efficient and beneficial than a thin, wide-cast net like UBI.
Contemporary unemployment rates aren’t a great metric to consider for the necessity/utility of UBI. The current unemployment situation in a lot of the world is a symptom of inefficiency and instability in the system (hand wavy gesture). UBI doesn’t address the underlying factors, not that it has to. But at the same time, status quo and inertia are massive forces to overcome, and “different but the same outcome” isn’t the push that’s needed to get over that hump. So, I just don’t think we’re anywhere close to getting over that barrier.
I don’t see how billionaires and politicians would be happy to give free money to everyone. They would think it’s some kind of communism.
I don’t think so.
No UBI proponent has given me a convincing argument that
inflationgreedy bastards won’t eventually increase prices to the extent that the extra money would be effectively wiped out. Which would be especially bad because people often propose UBI as a replacement for welfare - so those on a benefit get what little spending power they have eliminated, and only those with jobs can absorb the increased costs.Also, governments don’t tend to go around handing out money (well, to those who actually need it) willy-nilly. Most social welfare/workers’ rights gains in the 20th century were because western governments were afraid that the October Revolution might give their citizens ideas. As of now, there’s simply no threat of an alternative to Capitalism.
No UBI proponent has given me a convincing argument that inflation greedy bastards won’t eventually increase prices to the extent that the extra money would be effectively wiped out.
Really? Cuz all the serious discussions about UBI I have seen one of the first things they address is ways to prevent product makers and sellers just jacking up their prices.
Why not do that before UBI?
Some places have been trying to make their price gouging laws more robust already.
I think that it will start as an universal basic income but that it will evolve into universal basic products and services. Basic stuff you don’t have to pay for, like for example food and public transport and in time expand to shelter, all levels of education, etc. To the point of covering all the basic needs.
I think UBI is generally seen as something to do instead of that, a way to put off actually providing for people so that they can continue to funnel capital from the regularly well-off to the obscenely well-off while blaming it on the poor and the increasingly shrinking “middle-class”.
I came looking for a comment like this to agree that we need to discuss UBI more in the context of Universal Services.
Personally, I think there’s a strong chance that universal services will emerge before or alongside a UBI. Both are more likely to grow gradually rather than suddenly.
One great thing about universal services is that they don’t require as much top-down oversight to deploy, imo. You can join groups now that collect and distribute free fruit. Anyone with a skill can begin giving it away; if you’re a lawyer, you can give free legal services to immigrants; if you’re a technician, you can join or set up fixit clinics. Every time folks begin giving away labor value, they’re chipping away at the transactional structure that holds people hostage to capitalist labor markets. And as critical mass builds, more and more people are freed to spend less and less time hustling for their daily bread, and can direct more and more time to this Solidarity Economy. And unlike a UBI, you don’t need the government or the rich to buy-in: you can start practicing these things yourself and with neighbors now.
If you want to build this but want something a little less anarchist, public school systems are an existing prototype of this: that’s why a lot of school systems also engage in food distribution and more recently experiments in social housing. You can join advisory committees and help deploy more services using your school district to pilot universal basic services!
Unfortunately I think you’re right, but it will be provided by the people you work for, and people will say “isn’t it great”.
It’s a nice idea, but given human nature we’re fucked. UBI might be implemented in a few places, but I’m willing to bet everything it will never actually be universal, and those who stand to benefit the most will be the least likely to implement it.
If AI and robotics were to form viable replacements for the human workforce I honestly can’t see another option.
That’s a pretty big ‘if’ though.
We need to tax the wealthy fucks first. The hyperclass has too much wealth that is just sitting around doing nothing but influencing the world negatively. With the existing wealth inequality, UBI won’t even be financed.
#TaxWealth #TaxWealthNotWork
No. Wealthy people don’t feel like they’re winning unless poor people are losing.
