- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/9388376
Tweto by https://x.com/gaijingirl2026/status/2092235861265924137
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/9388376
Tweto by https://x.com/gaijingirl2026/status/2092235861265924137
Choose one:
Libs:
Not that it really matters, because I’m not a liberal, I’m a leftist, but I (and more importantly, my liberal friends) have no problem criticizing democrats for supporting Israel. So go ahead and point that out all you want. I’ll 100% agree with you that they are just as bad as republicans on that issue. The problem I have is when someone reduces the parties down to their stances on one single issue. (In case that wasn’t incredibly obvious from my first comment.)
“I don’t agree with Hitler on the death camps, but that’s just one issue, obviously I still support him!”
The parties have been reduced down to their stance on this one issue because they can’t even differ there. They both suck on all issues, but a lot of people would still vote for democrats if they could just not commit overt genocide.
They “can’t even differ there”? How about republicans want to strip my friends of the right to go into the correct bathroom, or play sports, or have a job, or get the medical care they need, or have the right identifier on their ID, or be treated fairly by their own government. Democrats don’t. That’s a pretty huge difference.
Democrats support stripping the right of people to live. Democrats support stripping the right of people not to be raped by dogs. Oh but they’re not your person friends, and you’re the protagonist of reality and people you don’t care about don’t matter
Ah yes Democrats famous for giving a shit when roe v Wade was overturned. Democrats whose candidate had one thing about trans people handling persecution: “They should follow the law”
Democrats whose main takeaway from losing once again was that they were too woke on the gender stuff. They do fuck all about republicans which is the same as supporting it, which a large amount of them do as well. But im sure voting for them despite them working against you and yours will surely result in something good and not at all push them towards even more depraved goals. Like genocide. Which they are committing. I wonder what the next red line will be?
So because democrats haven’t stopped republicans from being so shitty when republicans have power, I shouldn’t vote for them, and just let republicans have more power? I’m not following your logic.
You people keep acting as if you’re being told to roll over and accept defeat. Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is “voting for the lesser evil doesn’t work. Its such a dogshit strategy that there isn’t any difference between those two parties anymore.” And somehow you take that to mean there’s nothing to be done. If you are really so hellbent on voting being the only thing you can do, then at least vote for a third party. But really you ought to be doing more than that.
The absolute very best case scenario for a democrat is that they do fuck all. Most of them are far worse than that. They are typically doing the exact same shit as republicans, but no one gives a shit because they’re not overt. I am not an accelerationist, so I dont believe its a good idea to concentrate power in the hands of capitalists, so I won’t vote for the more competent managers of empire.
In the case of a best-case democrat, you’re also making things worse by voting for them, because your vote legitimises their inaction. Every election were democrats have won has been an election that normalised the monstrous. It didnt use to be like this, that you could just shell out cash for cops and child killers. You didnt use to just be able to hand out massive fracking contracts or senselessly pursue brinksmanship without anyone calling you out for the rabid warhawk that you were. Now it doesn’t matter. John Kerry ran on being the better guy for the war in Iraq. Obama won his second term on the back of all his warmongering. It wasn’t always like this. Decades of the lesser evil has lead us down this path, decades of “well we have to vote for them just this once, its the most important election dont you know” has put us where we are now. It clearly observably does not work.
The very best of the democrats is just a republican a few election cycles behind. And most of them are far below par.
Voting for them gives them legitimacy, its not a harmless action.
And of those that are the very best, they quickly get engulfed and integrated by the machine, turned into the next generation of managers of empire.
Famous republican Joe Biden
RvW was overturned under the USian dem government, after decades of promising to codify it, and at a time when all of the relevant judges could have just been replaced.
Yes, it is clear that you aren’t following the logic. Maybe some context will help: The democrats support republican policies when they are in power.
Also, who said that you should “just let the republicans have more power”? I didn’t see anyone even suggest that.
Doesn’t seem like you really know how to read, tbh.
The “foreign child crusher” in this comic is doing a lot of heavy lifting, for a lot other problems.
Democrats are, for the most part, pro union. They are the only ones supporting Medicare for all. They actually support science and education. They support social safety nets like social security and SNAP. They support gun regulations. They support foreign aid. They support safe access to abortions. They support LGBTQ rights.
Life is demonstrably worse under republican policies for the working class. I’d love it if third parties were an option, but they’re just not. Pretending like things will get better if we just let republicans win is not helping. They are literally turning the US into a fascist police state.
When one party is fine with me, if a little wary because I’m way further left than they are, and the other part literally wants to kill me and people like me, I see it as a pretty big difference.
Joe Biden broke up the rail strike and the democrats have a long history of weakening unions, this is the dumbest most ahistoric shit I’ve read yet.
Im not gonna bother with the rest of your gish-gallop bullshit except to point out that Roe v. Wade was overturned under a democrat president and it was NEVER codified even when they had run on doing exactly that.
True, Joe Biden finally ended the Amtrak worker strike—wait that’s not pro-union!
Except for Palestinians.
Except for Israelis
To arm the modern Holocaust.
Please demonstrate that the Palestinian working class have it worse.
The democrats were already supporting the modern Holocaust
“Genocide is fine with me”
“Palestinians are objects, not people”
All of these are so funny. “They’re turning the us into a fascist police state”
NEWSFLASH, ASSHOLE! ITS BEEN ONE THE WHOLE TIME. Obama was the one to make the patriot act.
No they dont. They campaign on supporting these things, but when they have power, they don’t do anything about them at best.
When they had a majority under Biden and Obama, when did they set up Medicare for all? When did they codify abortion rights?
And lets look at their foreign aid:
And life got demonstrably worse under democratic policies for the working class and for people living in other countries.
When did I say that we should let republicans win? I’m pretty sure I never did. The democrats are helping the republicans turn the US into a fascist police state. Remember when Obama increased mass surveillance? Remember when Biden increased funding to the military, ICE, DHS, cops, and helped build out the border wall? Remember when they both mass-deported and tortured people?
Well, that may be the difference between us. I’m pretty far to the left of the Democrats, because I think things like rape, torture, and murder are bad. I see both parties actively supporting those things happening to people like me, and people unlike me. But I guess that doesn’t matter to you as long as they aren’t going after you.
Is this a joke?
Oh, you aren’t living in reality, you just believe whatever they tell you on the evening news. It makes more sense now.
The meme didn’t say they were the same, they said they both crush children. People gotta come with a list before it’s okay? Not great for memes.
(It’s not just Palestinian children either btw)
They’re literally drawn as the same person with different colors.
Do you not understand meme comics either? Jesus Christ…
They are also drawn with speech bubbles demonstrating their differences.
Which does not include any concrete difference in policy
How detailed does a meme have to be?
The entire point of the meme is that both options do the same exact thing while acting differently to the public eye. If the meme intended to show a difference in policy or behavior it would have. That is the core of the argument being made, not an irrelevant detail.
I disagree but I don’t think anyone will accept that my interpretation of the meme is correct because I didn’t make it. So I made a different one where I can say with authority what the intent is.
Does this avoid the flaws you see here?
The meme heavily implies that the only difference is that one is polite and one is rude, which is not the only difference.
They both operate the exact same Palestinian child crushing machine, but one also operates a number of additional child crushing machines. People didn’t support the lesser evil because they’re more polite, they do it to keep those additional child crushing machines from operating.
You think Palestine is the only Bi-partisan machine? You really need to open a history book. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and all the rest are all bi-partisan.
Eh, the degree varies greatly. And ultimately, bi-partisan machines are irrelevant to the choice. Look at the partisan ones. Which side is operating more partisan machines?
Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single non bi-partisan one.
Do you read the news?
Why? Are you looking for someone to read it for you?
Iran is bi-partisan as is Gaza same as Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq
The difference in both parties is of 100% hitler and 99.5% hitler. Not much
I understand why people do it but what I don’t understand is why they are content to continue supporting any child crushing and discourage people from discussing it.
Discussing it is fine, I think people only get touchy about it right before an election because they don’t want other people to lose sight of the utility of voting lesser evil. I think the ones who actually think about it don’t support any child crushing, they just recognize that the election has a binary outcome, and they’d rather fight the lesser evil than the greater one.
At the end of the day, voting in bourgeoisie elections is just choosing the enemy you’ll be fighting, and choosing the lesser child crushing gives you a fight you’re more likely to win.
Maybe if your only options are evil, after decades and centuries, it’s time to stop being evil and start over.
That’s a nice thought, but totally impotent without some actionable plan.
Good News!
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
Sanction America and Israel out of existence. Balkanize the states.
When else can people put pressure on the lesser evil to “tone down” the evil? Or take the opportunity to ensure folks know about the evil? Isn’t it when things look their worst they say “well actually we need to be slightly more evil to get those swing voters”?
Maybe I don’t understand the US system but I believe platforms are individual to candidates and that there are no overall party platforms that the candidates are expected to adhere to. How is there no shift to less evil under these conditions? So many individual elections for individual people and a whole lot of wack people getting elected.
I think this is my point: when do they fight the lesser evil?
Primaries mostly
I decided against continuing the convo you are replying to because it felt like the other person and I had both explained our points of view and anything further might feel like trying to convince them to adopt mine but I had wanted to bring up primaries.
Doesn’t this same thing play out in the primaries? Otherwise how could the lesser evil stay evil?
While the platforms are technically individual, they aren’t really. They have to get approval from their bosses (donors) on what they get to run on. And the few actual good things that they run on has to be just empty rhetoric. If they get elected, they are expected to immediately forget those things.
Thats the neat part, they don’t. The cycle goes like this:
Rinse, repeat
Holy shit I thought this was a serious reply for the first few lines and I was AGHAST
Sincerely don’t mean to be rude, but the first 7 words provide the answer. Even when there are no official overall party platforms, the eyebrows waggle in a certain direction. Especially where campaign funding is concerned.
I do my part. Many others do too. The fighters are in the minority, which is why it’s so important that the bystanders at least make our work easier.