today I created a burner google account. these days google requires an Android phone in order to even create an account so I used an old phone to scan the QR code ( I am pretty sure this lets google grab all of the metadata of the mobile phone ). after about 1 hour creating the account. google’s automated system disabled the account however I appealed and got the account back. before someone asks I need google because of where I live.
this made me wonder what if google mandates age verification? if there were age verification google would immediately notice that I am creating another account ( burner account ) which it won’t like. burner account won’t be created in the first place!
we already have too much surveillance and this makes it worse. my mobile number is already tied to my read government identity. I DO NOT want my online account to be tied to my read identify too! it is sad, it really is
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The EU is building the EUDI wallet (or rather requiring each member state to provide a solution) and it will be possible to prove your age with that without disclosing details about your identity. And it’s even possible to do this on your device, so the state won’t know who you’re proving your age to. Just saying that there are ways to do it right. It’s just a matter of whether everybody wants that.
Storing identification information on an internet-connected system will never be safe for the people whose information is collected there. Such databases are high-value targets. They always get attacked, and the information stolen. This cannot be done safely.
Just saying that there are ways to do it right.
No, there is no way to do “censoring access to information for young people” right. That remains an entirely illegitimate goal no matter which mechanisms you invent for doing it in a privacy preserving manner.
Using the neutral term “information” here is doing a lot of heavy lifting for your argument.
Nobody is banning the youth from accessing wikipedia or a library or minecraft.
And if a young person really wants to watch at porn, torrenting/piracy will always be there without age verification.
Speaking of minecraft and circumvention, do you remember the uncensored library map? https://www.techdirt.com/2020/03/19/routing-around-damage-censored-reporting-hosted-custom-built-minecraft-library/
I bet someone inclined to do so could host a pornhub mirror/proxy inside of a modded minecraft map.
But also, if the parents decide that it’s part of growing up they can just give their kids access to porn.
Oh uuuh I mean, not porn, iNfOrMaTiOn.
Nobody is banning the youth from accessing wikipedia or a library or minecraft.
Wikipedia has pornographic images and videos in it (certainly in its media archive, Wikimedia Commons, and some of them are embedded in articles).
Library: ??? Are we still talking about the Internet?
But also, if the parents decide that it’s part of growing up they can just give their kids access to porn.
Yes. Giving kids access to the open Internet is giving them access to a repository of nearly all human knowledge and endeavors, including (but not limited to) porn. If parents believe their child isn’t yet developmentally ready to be exposed to all human knowledge and endeavors, they shouldn’t be giving that child (unsupervised) access to a worldwide information system whose entire purpose is to provide access to exactly that.
You keep speaking in extremes and absolutes. There is also pornographic content walking outside on the street in the city if you so wish to classify it (and some people certainly do to they point where they get turned on by seing a bare ankle).
Certainly the pictures and videos on wikipedia which you chose to consider pornographic rather than neutrally informative have a different set of qualities then what you would find in the extreme sections of porn-serving websites.
There is a middle ground. You can give partial access. And age verification is one more tool for that (we already have parental controls for routers and mobile internet simcards and smart devices)
I don’t like nor want age verification btw. I just don’t agree with your arguments against it, because I find them weak.
Certainly the pictures and videos on wikipedia which you chose to consider pornographic rather than neutrally informative have a different set of qualities then what you would find in the extreme sections of porn-serving websites.
Look into the Wikimedia Commons category “pornographic videos” and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Not linking to it because I’m not sure I’m allowed to do that here.
There is a middle ground. You can give partial access.
Hence why I wrote specifically about the open Internet. You are right: there are ways to give people access to only a selected part of the Internet. If parents decide to do that, fine; doesn’t have to concern any website operators, or any adults.
Hence why I wrote specifically about the open Internet. You are right: there are ways to give people access to only a selected part of the Internet. If parents decide to do that, fine; doesn’t have to concern any website operators, or any adults.
Like I said, I agree. But your initial argument is no good. You toss everything into one box to make your claim appear stronger but in doing so you actually make it dismissable. Stay differentiated.
Nope, it won’t be anonymous.
Look, any kind of digital age verification must be connected in some way to an actual identity.
If you are running a community operating under EU laws to require age verification, then a simple true/false statement won’t cut it.
You will be required to log a personal ID number of the user, signed by the digital wallet issuer, that is the only way to guarantee that a specific person was verified to be of age.
You as an admin of the community might not know the identity of the users, but the government can tie the account back to you.
I am pretty sure this lets google grab all of the metadata of the mobile phone
Android is a Google product. They have full control over it. They can “grab all the metadata of the mobile phone” (whatever that means) any time they like.
yes, but in this case that metadata is now attached to the newly created burner account. and if you use your personal android device then google knows that it’s your burner account.
Do you know what de-anonymization online can do?
Exactly, de-anonymize you, based on your behaviour patterns collected over years and decades and any data they can lay their hands on. It doesn’t matter if you switch accounts or phones or both every week or even type of device.
If every one of your new accounts/devices is at the same place, is awake at the same time, uses the same apps, has the same typing rhythm, browses the same websites at the same time of day and logs in with the same accounts and sings the pokemon theme song in the shower every morning and walks in the park twice a day with dog barking and “good boi” sounds happening in closest proximity to the tracking device you carry in your pocket - they’ll be pretty sure it’s the same person.
Wasn’t there a scandal just last week about Samsung smart tv’s recoding audio nonstop and sending it to their servers, even when they are “turned off”?
And even if you are a hermit that cut off all their devices and access to the internet altogether, other peoples devices will collect data about you, enumerate you as a seperate entity from the device holder and keep collecting and patternmatching.
You make it sound like google did this specific thing on accident.
Why use Google or any of the big US tech firms for burner accounts then?
because of where I live. people find it suspicious not having google account.
Now that’s suspicious as hell
It depends on how AV is implemented. Google can either ask for your ID card, that would be inherently non-anonymous and prevent you from creating a burner account, if they would store the information of your id card – which of course Google would never do (/s). The other option would be a third party would check your ID an provide Google only with the information that the request is done by somebody of legal age.
There is no safe way to aggregate such identity information in an internet-connected database. They always get breached. Discord tried to do this and all the collected IDs got stolen almost immediately.
No party can be trusted to store identification information safely.
The other option would be a third party would check your ID an provide Google only with the information that the request is done by somebody of legal age.
You’re just shifting the problem down the chain. There is no guarantee that this third party would be any more trustworthy than Google. They could even be less trustworthy, in fact.
