The survey by the Centre for Social Investment Studies (CENSIS) showed 39% of Italians aged between 18 and 45 would declare themselves as pacifist conscientious objectors, 19% would try to evade conscription another way, and 26% would prefer Italy to hire foreign mercenaries.
As SOD says: “Why do they only send the poor?” Send politicians, high rank officials, billionaires and celebrities to the front for a change. I spent my time in the army. But I wouldn’t fight for any country these days…
Actually send no one. War is a stupid game played by stupid people to make stupid money…
To “fight for your country” has been coopted so many times for wars in far away lands, ideological wars, wars of aggression, that the phrasing alone will make people assume they are being lied to and that somebody is fishing for dumb people to be sent into the meat grinder.
“fight for your country” has been coopted
Maybe, but surveys like this have been held in several countries and most show a higher percentage of willingness…Seemingly, most respondents there didn’t have this association.
Idk about Italy specifically, or the difference in phrasing per study though.
Add. another factor could be the disinformation landscape. statista
China and Russia’s absence makes this meaningless.
China and Russia’s absence makes this meaningless.
What do you mean, you aren’t talking about the graph, right?
Do you see China and Russia’s ranking on the statista graph? I don’t.
Do you see China and Russia’s ranking on the statista graph?
Duh, ofcourse you dont. It’s a disinformation chart in free democratic countries. Also if you check the comments it was used as an argument concerning an European research.
When we talk about disinformation we commonly refer to Ruzz disinformation, and we mean their psyops hybrid disinformation campaigns in ** democratic** countries.
If you want to see a chart that might answer your question here is one
These charts are always suspect when they have a literal apartheid regime run by scores of howling fascists marked as democratic.
I guess as long as you accept their idea where democracy only applies to part of the population, then yes, part of the population can pretend they live in a democratic society. Nothing wrong with just not considering other people as people, no sir. Only freedom here.
(I don’t disagree that disinfo is usually discussed in the context of countries where people are more likely to affect policy)
The chart is from 2023
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not everything is about the USA
perish like the dog you are
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bark for daddy, maybe he will even give you more bootlicking time
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yes like that, woof woof doggy
instance checks out
I’d rather migrate to another country than to risk my life and the ones I love for a pointless war driven by maniac idiots.
Me too. But sometimes I am also wondering what then. Sooner or later the maniac idiots will come to the other country as well and maybe it’s better to fight them before they get even stronger.
Maybe. But for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn’t be my problem and not worth risking my life. Life is way too precious to throw it away so easily by becoming a cog in the war machine.
for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn’t be my problem
Just one example among many why this isn’t the case, at least if you live in a non-democratic country.
Good thing I don’t have children and don’t live in such a shitty country.
[…] Law enforcement officers break into young men’s homes, dress in plain clothes to ambush them near buildings, and handcuff them in subway stations and shopping malls. Newly drafted conscripts are even apprehended during trips to other cities and dragged into police cars in the streets. Conscripts and their families [say that] military enlistment officials, together with Russia’s National Guard (Rosgvardiya), tase prospective soldiers with electric shockers and threaten them with criminal charges in an effort to force them into uniform […]
This reality does little to increase the draft’s popularity. Instead, it has led enlistment offices to act more aggressively. Aside from the all too familiar tactic of “same-day transfers to the assembly point” — a practice that gained traction in the fall of 2022 — conscripts are subjected to beatings, handcuffing, detention at enlistment offices, and are coerced into signing contracts with Russia’s Ministry of Defense on the spot […]
As one Russian man tells in the article:
"They came around noon and started ringing the doorbell. My mother refused to open, but they broke the lock and came inside. They justified their intrusion by claiming the apartment was municipally owned and, therefore, they had the right to enter whenever they pleased. They tried to intimidate everyone. My mother stood in the hallway, yelling and trying to block their way, but they pushed her aside harshly, leaving bruises on her arm, and made their way inside [the home].
"My sister started recording everything on her phone. Three men came in. They identified themselves as Nikolai Igorevich Yakushev, a sergeant from the Khoroshevo-Mnevniki [District] police department, and Alexander Balashov, the senior district officer. With them was a plainclothes man — a bald guy who refused to identify himself. We later realized he was from the draft office.”
Yes, this is horrible. Luckily I don’t live in such an inhumane nation.
Does that include your country being invaded? Does “a pointless war driven by maniac idiots” include defense from invasion?
Yes.
Well, then they’s better send weapons to Ukraine
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Instance Name checks out.
I wouldn’t really call “trying to evade being oppressed by Russia” fighting for us interests.
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Quick! Tell me what’s your opinion on the Russian annexiation of Chechnya or I’m going to shit and piss your pants.
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I somehow doubt you would do any direct action, much less murder of working class enemies. But if you do, well that’s good, what other direct action do you participate in? I donate to my local food-not-bombs, when I can afford to.
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I always thought Italy is full of nationalists
You see, Italians hate their country, but at the same time think it’s the best country (right until they need to do some bureaucracy, then it’s the worst).
So they nationalisticaly defend it with words against other countries, but they wouldn’t actually put skin in the game.
Source: you can see my instance ends with .it
Why does working in IT give you insight into Italy?
If you aren’t sarcastic, .it is Italy national domain (short for Italy, ofc)
This would explain it, thanks for the insight
Which age are they?
Because a lot of people love war and nationalist bullshit, when it is other people doing the fighting for them
What’s that? You don’t want to throw yourselves into a meatgrinder to protect the private property rights of your fellow rich nationals?
In all likelyhood the adversary isn’t taking my apartment. It’s taking the factories I don’t own. Maybe working conditions would be worse afterwards. Maybe they’d better. Gotta check who’s invading.
Gotta check who’s invading.
a line to remember
Most likely countries to invade are far right authoritarian. Though IDK where you live, if you’re in like Russia or Iran there’s merit to the idea that conditions might improve. If you’re in any of the classic “western” countries, no way, though - even the USA has better working conditions than Russia.
Likely. The joke about the bird in cow shit applies though. Not everyone who shits on you means you harm and not everyone who pulls you out of the shit means you good.
The article doesn’t talk about any specific kind of war, does it?
For example, if I look at Gaza or Ukraine, I can’t see it as “damage to rich private property rights”.
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Can we get that down to 0% world-wide? Pretty please?
Nobody will attack the EU anyway. Next one.
Only 16% of Italians would fight for their country, survey shows
does that include women?
Quick! Let’s annex Italy!
Yes please, make us a scandinavian protectorade🥵
My thoughts exactly, time for big germany to return. Although not in the previous way I guess
What exactly do you think the EU is? 😱
Surely it will be more once the rubber hits the road.
They know better than to fight wars for the US oligarchs.
