Exactly. The system is set up so that people work for barely enough to survive. Introducing better tools doesn’t give labor more free time, it gives their bosses more money. We’ve seen this with every technology since the cotton gin now: that’s why no one imagines that AI will give people more time with their families.
Nowadays I’m self-employed but back in my previous job I was paid by the hour. I earn exactly the same amount of money independent of whether I spend the whole day cutting steel with a hacksaw or an angle grinder but from my perspective as an employee, the angle grinder sure saves me a ton of effort. Same applies to other tools, better workwear and so on. Yeah, I don’t get to go home at 12pm because the better tools were so much faster but it sure made the 8 hours I spent at the jobsite that much less unpleasant. Naturally that is even more so the case now that I’m the beneficiary of the work that got done quicker.
I honestly can’t believe how cynical some people are here. I truly don’t envy you.
Its not my fault you havent accepted youre a wage slave yet and havent become the right amount of cynical that you can recognize dripping sarcasm when its right in front of you.
I worked my way out of poverty so although I agree with you, I think the wording needs specificity.
You cannot work your way out of poverty by working harder at a poverty job. You have to switch jobs and grow your skill set until you become a valuable enough commodity to trigger competition for you.
No it isn’t. Go work a trade job like being an electrician. Start early enough and put it in a 401k and other such investments and you will retire a millionaire.
Most jobs give you the training, most jobs aren’t that physical, and you get paid to learn and work. None of those are obstacles at all, you’re just ignorant.
The USA really is a shit hole, most countries have government trade programs. The USA does, but they allow the states to just do what they want regardless, so it’s useless.
And even in those southern states, the companies pay for the training. You really have no clue about how trades work do you?
Just Google your state, a random trade, and you can learn a whole hell of a lot your ignorant about I guess, but also look federal too.
And most trades just need a high school diploma to apply, you’re seriously not suggesting that’s an obstacle are you….?
I would posit that rose-colored glasses serve the capitalist class, and that it serves the interest of labor to make realistic assessments and adjust behavior accordingly. That is a message of strategy and success.
There is a massive gap between rose tinted glasses and crippling nihilism. By your last comment it seems that we are both somewhere in between.
What I wrote is true, but it does not mean that it is all roses or even anywhere near as friction free as it once was, but you absolutely can still find success in this shitshow.
What you responded is also true. We need strong labor (amongst many other things) and a realistic view of the current state of our society before we can make any headway.
The point I wanted to make is that it does not serve one’s self to throw their hands up in the air, exclaim that there is no point, wait for society to magically fix itself, and do nothing but complain on the Internet.
I believe that we are stronger and more resilient than we give ourselves credit for, and maybe that’s where I concede I might have rose tinted glasses.
Ah, my terseness didn’t serve either of us. My apologies!
The point I wanted to make is that it does not serve one’s self to throw their hands up in the air, exclaim that there is no point, wait for society to magically fix itself, and do nothing but complain on the Internet.
I believe that we are stronger and more resilient than we give ourselves credit for,
We are in perfect alignment, here.
and maybe that’s where I concede I might have rose tinted glasses.
No, the preceding statement is true and correct, in my estimation. The only issues would be will and focus, and with practice, these are remedied.
Edit to add: all this presumes upwardly mobile jobs are actually available, the body and mind meet the physical and intellectual requirements, and transportation isn’t an issue.
Im saying, you can spend every day working very hard but that alone will not get you out of poverty. There are always political and social menuevrors you have to do or hit the lottery.
Labor competition prevents productivity gains from generating excess labor in capitalist systems.
Then supply and demand must follow.
Can I just cut you off at the pass and say its a myth that you can work your way out of poverty. The system isn’t set up like that.
Exactly. The system is set up so that people work for barely enough to survive. Introducing better tools doesn’t give labor more free time, it gives their bosses more money. We’ve seen this with every technology since the cotton gin now: that’s why no one imagines that AI will give people more time with their families.
Except piecework and flat rate jobs still exist. You don’t have to work for someone else especially with how affordable most of these tools are.
Nowadays I’m self-employed but back in my previous job I was paid by the hour. I earn exactly the same amount of money independent of whether I spend the whole day cutting steel with a hacksaw or an angle grinder but from my perspective as an employee, the angle grinder sure saves me a ton of effort. Same applies to other tools, better workwear and so on. Yeah, I don’t get to go home at 12pm because the better tools were so much faster but it sure made the 8 hours I spent at the jobsite that much less unpleasant. Naturally that is even more so the case now that I’m the beneficiary of the work that got done quicker.
I honestly can’t believe how cynical some people are here. I truly don’t envy you.
Back in the day, half of jobs were literally death sentences lol. Weird to see this amalgamation of technophobia and historical honey moon syndrome.
Then then the argument isn’t about jobs and feeding that narrative is unproductive
You’re the one who asked “Why isn’t anyone saying that [great labor saving technology] will give us more free time?”
Its not my fault you havent accepted youre a wage slave yet and havent become the right amount of cynical that you can recognize dripping sarcasm when its right in front of you.
Demand for human labor lowers. So they hire fewer people and capture the savings themselves.
It’s never about spending more time with the family. It’s all about paying less for labor.
Which they already optimize for. If we all make less we only widen the gap between the oligarchs and labor. Two classes that dont ever mingle anyway.
100%. We should be using AI as the catalyst for a new union movement
We should.
I had no intention of making the claim that work could lead to wealth, and honestly don’t see how my comment would lead to it.
I think OP simply has very poor reading comprehension.
You just havent followed that path enough.
I worked my way out of poverty so although I agree with you, I think the wording needs specificity.
You cannot work your way out of poverty by working harder at a poverty job. You have to switch jobs and grow your skill set until you become a valuable enough commodity to trigger competition for you.
That just gets you out of poverty.
That world is gone.
No it isn’t. Go work a trade job like being an electrician. Start early enough and put it in a 401k and other such investments and you will retire a millionaire.
That presumes educational, physical, finances aren’t obstacles.
Most jobs give you the training, most jobs aren’t that physical, and you get paid to learn and work. None of those are obstacles at all, you’re just ignorant.
I don’t know where you are but they don’t do that in my southern state. Maybe you’re just privileged.
The USA really is a shit hole, most countries have government trade programs. The USA does, but they allow the states to just do what they want regardless, so it’s useless.
And even in those southern states, the companies pay for the training. You really have no clue about how trades work do you?
Just Google your state, a random trade, and you can learn a whole hell of a lot your ignorant about I guess, but also look federal too.
And most trades just need a high school diploma to apply, you’re seriously not suggesting that’s an obstacle are you….?
Educational: if you have a phone, you have access to almost all of human knowledge, largely for free.
Physical: I’ve seen people without legs do things people with able bodies won’t or can’t do.
Finances: I’ve seen single mothers work three jobs to put food on the table while going to school for nursing at the same time
If you truly have the will, there is always a way. I’m not saying it’s easy, but you absolutely can.
It is not. Don’t fall for that defeatist bullshit.
I would posit that rose-colored glasses serve the capitalist class, and that it serves the interest of labor to make realistic assessments and adjust behavior accordingly. That is a message of strategy and success.
There is a massive gap between rose tinted glasses and crippling nihilism. By your last comment it seems that we are both somewhere in between.
What I wrote is true, but it does not mean that it is all roses or even anywhere near as friction free as it once was, but you absolutely can still find success in this shitshow.
What you responded is also true. We need strong labor (amongst many other things) and a realistic view of the current state of our society before we can make any headway.
The point I wanted to make is that it does not serve one’s self to throw their hands up in the air, exclaim that there is no point, wait for society to magically fix itself, and do nothing but complain on the Internet.
I believe that we are stronger and more resilient than we give ourselves credit for, and maybe that’s where I concede I might have rose tinted glasses.
Ah, my terseness didn’t serve either of us. My apologies!
We are in perfect alignment, here.
No, the preceding statement is true and correct, in my estimation. The only issues would be will and focus, and with practice, these are remedied.
Edit to add: all this presumes upwardly mobile jobs are actually available, the body and mind meet the physical and intellectual requirements, and transportation isn’t an issue.
Im saying, you can spend every day working very hard but that alone will not get you out of poverty. There are always political and social menuevrors you have to do or hit the lottery.
Yes, I am agreeing with you, and I figured that’s what you meant. I am just clarifying for anyone else reading.
No hate