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euromaidanpress.com

A 22-year-old German politician who secretly served in Ukraine’s army now faces expulsion from the pro-Russian Alternative for Germany party after calling his own leadership “Russia-kissers.”

  • iglou@programming.devEnglish
    113·
    3 days ago

    Your comment shows a lack of understanding of what democracy is.

    There is plenty of forms of democracy, and the appointment of the president of the European Commission is democratic.

    It’s a form of parliamentary democracy, where the European Council, a symbolic “head of state” of the EU made of heads of states/governments of EU members, nominates a candidate, which has to then be approved by the European Parliament.

    This is a democratic system very close to what is adopted in many democratic countries.

    So yes, this is democratic. There is no “backroom deal”, this is just literally how a parliamentary democracy works. You elect representatives who make decisions for you, including appointing the executive.

    • CorruptionIsBad@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      1·
      2 days ago

      Ah yes, is that why she also insisted in having a literal flat IN the commission’s building, where she enjoy extraterritoriality and the belgian police cannot search there?

      Very democratic lmao

      • iglou@programming.devEnglish
        2·
        2 days ago

        I don’t give a shit about Von der Leyen. I’m talking about the EU, not someone specific.

    • plyth@feddit.orgEnglish
      2·
      3 days ago

      Do you remember that the parliament was supposed to select the candidate but they changed it back after everybody had voted? It was within the legal framework but against the spirit of democracy.

      • iglou@programming.devEnglish
        4·
        3 days ago

        I actually don’t, could you point me to sources so that I can read about it? Can’t seem to find anything about it myself.

        • plyth@feddit.orgEnglish
          31·
          3 days ago

          In September 2018, Weber announced his candidacy (Spitzenkandidat) for the post of the President of the European Commission for the 2019 European election.[13] (Under the unofficial Spitzenkandidat system, the leader of the European party that commands the largest coalition in the European Parliament subsequent to an election to the European Parliament is likely to become the European Commission president.[5][6])

          Weber’s European People’s Party won a plurality of seats in the European Parliament in May 2019, thus making him the lead candidate to succeed Jean-Claude Juncker as President of the European Commission unless the Spitzenkandidat system was abandoned.[5] On 28 May, leaders of EU governments tasked European Council President Donald Tusk with leading the negotiations with members of the European Parliament and national leaders to pick a new European Commission President at an EU summit in late June 2019.[7] Tusk hinted that Weber was the “lead candidate.”[7] This did not materialise with Ursula von der Leyen, a fellow member of the European People’s Party, being appointed president.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Weber

          Haven’t found it mentioned on her page. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen

          • iglou@programming.devEnglish
            51·
            3 days ago

            Oh that! I thought you meant that when they decided of how the appointment should be done, they had a vote and ignored it.

            I do see how that seems like it’s a non-democratic move, but it’s not. It is never up to the parliament to nominate the President of the Commission. The Parliament has a veto power, however. The Council nominates, “taking into account the result of the elections”, a candidate. The Parliament then approves them or vetoes them.

            Their is a lot of subtility to the “democraticness” of a system.

            While systematically picking the leader of the biggest coalition may seem like the most obviously democratic choice… It is actually not always the case. Especially in the European Parliament, where majorities are rare. So, if the leader of the largest group (let’s say, 30%) is impopular with the remaining 70%, who would all prefer another candidate, how is it democratic to go with the impopular candidate?

            That’s why the parliament has a right to veto. The Parliament voted with a majority to elect Von der Leyen, when they were all aware that Weber was the most likely candidate initially. That makes her election democratic.

            Just because Weber was the likely candidate due to the election results does not mean the Parliament would have elected him in the end, and that is also a consideration when the Council nominates a candidate. As a matter of fact, he was indeed impopular with a lot of coalitions, and Von der Leyen reveived 60% of the votes, with an informal coalition supporting her that consisted of the majority of the Parliament.

            • Nico198X@europe.pubEnglish
              4·
              3 days ago

              There is a LOT of misinformation about how the EU works, all pushed by bad faith actors trying to undermine the EU because together we are a threat to their influence.

            • plyth@feddit.orgEnglish
              11·
              3 days ago

              Do you remember that they put the focus on the candidates because from that election on they were supposed to be taken?

              The point is not that the largest group has to be taken but that the parliament itself should choose the president. The current modus was acceptable when the EU had no power. Now the EU can create regulations that become law.

              • iglou@programming.devEnglish
                3·
                3 days ago

                I disagree, I don’t think it should be that way. And it doesn’t make it any less democratic, what we have is literally how most parliamentary democracies work.

                • plyth@feddit.orgEnglish
                  11·
                  3 days ago

                  Can you name such a country please? I only know countries where the head of government is either elected directly or chosen by parliament.

                  • iglou@programming.devEnglish
                    4·
                    3 days ago

                    The closest to the exact situation of the EU are Estonia, Germany, and Spain:

                    The head of state nominates a candidate for prime minister who is then submitted to parliament for approval before appointment.

                    Then you’ve got different, close enough nomination/appointment systems:

                    Italy:

                    The head of state appoints a prime minister who must gain a vote of confidence within a set time.

                    Australia, Canada, India, Jamaica, Malaysia, New Zealand, the UK, Denmark, Portugal:

                    The head of state appoints a prime minister who will likely have majority support in parliament

                    Sweden:

                    A public officeholder (other than the head of state or their representative) nominates a candidate, who, if approved by parliament, is appointed as prime minister.

                    Then you have some countries close to what you would like:

                    Japan, Thailand, Ireland:

                    Parliament nominates a candidate whom the head of state is constitutionally obliged to appoint as prime minister.

                    Source

                    Note that in the case of the EU, the President of the Commission plays the role of the head of government (aka, the equivalent of what most countries call Prime Minister), not head of state. As established in my previous comments, the head of state of the EU is the European Council.